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Theory Exercise 4: Complete Counter Draft

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Forum » Theory Crafting » Theory Exercise 4: Complete Counter Draft 13 posts - page 2 of 2
Permalink | Quote | PM | +Rep by Smuggels » October 23, 2014 9:22pm | Report
R-Conqueror wrote:

Mid: Pugna. He offers a lot of tools that can neutralize several members of their line-up. Nether Ward can destroy Skywrath, and Decrepify can be a great in nullifying a Chronospere.


^ this is an amazing pick up. i think it completely wrecks my drafts ability to team fight. but you will need to baby sit him so much because if he gets caught out at ALL and picked off the rest of your draft falls apart. your relying on Nether Ward a tad too much for your team fight engagements. which yes it does wonders in them but a solid 3 man chrono would leave you with out much to disengage.

against a dp he does well because they are both passive mids but i feel he might get out cs'd and tier one mid would fall though not as quick as against other mids.

plus any roaming from sky and jakiro would be threatening since he is so squishy.

great pick up for the team good mid but would have to play careful.

R-Conqueror wrote:

Safelane: Dragon Knight. His high armor and tower pushing ability make him a phenomenal counter to DP, as well as being hard to kill in a chrono.


^^ great pick up and the synergy between your trilane is amazing with the slow pick up and reposition and then the close range stun. it would really hurt.

if your against a centuar.

if your against the slark. your going to lose the lane. by lose the lane i mean give levels to slark which is what is needed. the reposition works and the slow but (im usually the offlaner) i would wait out the slow and wait for the tele then dark pact and pounce out. free and clear.

if against a cent your trilane would defs win the lane. against the slark u wouldnt. but the synergy between your picks in that regard is very nice.

the hard carry aspect does well. high armour allows him to tank dps ult and early level chrono's but sky's ult would melt him quick. plus he cant go toe to toe with Faceless late game unless he has a farm advantage.

i think it works against the offlaner and works against the push but unless he gets ridculous early farm your going to lose map control.

R-Conqueror wrote:

Safelane Supports(tri-lane): Dazzle and Rubick This combo gives you fair ganking ability, while also offering armor, magic resistance, and of course shallow graave. This would be a scary tri to go up against, and could rotate well.


^ as per above.

magic resistance is nice will do amazing against the sky. not so much the dp. shallow grave would be awesome as well keeping dk alive. i feel the rubick pick is soft though i would ahve preferred a counter initiator since you dont really have any of those.

your very proactive and if you get initiated on i feel your team will not be able to react well.

R-Conqueror wrote:

Offlane: I had trouble with this one, but weirdly enough I'm gonna roll with Windranger. Built with a little more damage in mind, she could be a threat to towers and heroes alike.


^ this is where your draft is weak.

i feel she would lose the lane so hard in so many ways.

the silence triple slow and DOT plus the stun would give easy kills.

and she would get no levels or no farm.

Liquid Fire would serve to leave her under farmed and under level'd.

she then wont be able to take the towers and id expect your tier one top to drop quick.




OVERALL:

great draft MASSIVE strengths and good counters in there. still feel that the power of the tri core DP FACELESS and JAKIRO might be a bit much to deal with. your offlane is too weak in my opinion. a TIDE or another counter initiator would have been better. wind will be so under leveled and weak she would be easy food for fv. and or slark/cent.

you have decent tower push but with jakiro and dp its just not as good. plus if you try and split push the strength of your team is reduced so much that my draft would steamroll down 2 towers for your one.

i think if you changed your offlane you would defs have the better draft since so many of your heroes are great counters but if initiated on then i feel you would lose a fight.

your draft relies on being able to take fights under a tower with a nether ward up. stall the fight or draw it out long enough for wind or pugna to split push another lane. but with wind so under farmed/under leveled and pugna being core to your defence. you cant really do that.

rubick would have a field day but with the initiation i have, your rubick would have to have the positioning of a god.

RESULT:
you win if:

if rubick plays well
if i try and fight into ward
if i draft cent instead of slark

you lose:
most other scenarios...

anyway thats my thoughts feel free to critique :D

I WILL DESTROY YOU ALL.... WITH FLUFFY BUNNIES


Smuggels

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Permalink | Quote | PM | +Rep by Sanvitch » October 24, 2014 3:48am | Report
Right, let's do a counter draft for draft 1:

Firstly I think I should state my overview of the opposing draft, and thus how I feel I shall attempt to counter it.

With a Terrorblade the draft has immensly powerful mid-late game pushing potential, as well as incredible stong mid game team-fight with Eye of the Storm and Centaur Warrunner . However, the support choices I'm going for Rubik and Enigma have relatively weak defensive presence in the early game (Compared to a Witch Doctor who has two great defensive spells, and Treant Protector who has global presence, and thus the line-up leaves itself vulnerable to aggressive play early on.

Thus my line-up shall focus on early game aggresion to shut down the Terrorblade, and go into the mid-game with a potential gold and EXP lead. This should allow me to win the day even with the fact I can't really compete with the other line-up as things go late (And I don't like my chances of holding on long enough for certain hard carries to come online, thus no Medusa).

So let's start:

Aggro Tri-lane: Phantom Assassin - She has decent enough harass that helps with achieving the last hits with Stifling Dagger. She will also be able to easily jump into aggresive plays with Phantom Strike. Coup de Grace means she doesn't need farm to have mid-game damage items to fight, which is helpful in the event the tri-lane goes slightly wrong. She also has the choice of either to build mid game stats in order to fight, or late game if it's truly needed.

Support duo: Leshrac. Whilst not a conventional aggresive support (And is admittedly very level dependant), he does offer bits of everything. He has a stun, and amazing pushing power, which is helpful because it means I can transition pick-offs into quick towers thanks to Diabolic Edict, and he has great creep wave clearance with Pulse Nova and Lightning Storm.

Now, given how unreliable Split Earth is to land, I'll need to combo it with other disables into to get kills on the Terrorblade. So as most people have identified, given how good Lion is versus Terrorbalde, I'll take him up. Also because he can work against Centaur Warrunner if he's quick on the Hex.

Hopefully the aggro tri should be able to kill Terrorblade time and time again. And if not, well they'll probably be able to just force him so far back he can't farm worth a damn, and is thus out for a very long time.

Thus now my safe-lane: Jakiro - A 1 position Jakiro is very much an early-mid game hero. Which is fine because as I said I don't want to go late here. The primary thing it does is prevent Terrorblade from simply rotating to the offlane to dodge my aggro tri, because Liquid Fire will just force him out of lane as it does to basically every solo laner in the game. Oh that and just make taking towers the easiest thing in the world.

Finally my midlaner: Venomancer - Plague Ward should compensate against Static Link and will eventually force Razor out of lane, and take the tier 1. It adds again to my pushing power, and Poison Nova will be an amazing team-fight ability till the other side gets there hands on a Pipe.

Areas of weakness for my draft: Very reliant on getting kills with my Aggro-Tri, have only 1 late-game core, and generally will fail to win if the other side gets a continual advantage.

I just don't think you can draft late against a Razor and a Terrorblade - There's to much push.

Since you just can't have enough Chaos Breaker.

Sanvitch


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Permalink | Quote | PM | +Rep by R-Conqueror » October 24, 2014 11:28am | Report
Alright, thank you for the feedback, I see what you mean about the weaknesses of it. Although I will disagree in that I think the trilane could still win against a Slark if you watch the Dark Pact timing.

Again, thanks for the review!

R
I got to Notable, Thanks!
Check out my carrying guide: http://www.dotafire.com/dota-2/guide/alchemist-shrugged-a-carrying-guide-8022

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