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How do I escape 1.6k?

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Forum » General Discussion » How do I escape 1.6k? 29 posts - page 3 of 3
Permalink | Quote | PM | +Rep by Unscathed » August 21, 2014 3:16am | Report
Bunkansee wrote:


3rd ranked now actually haha. Played 2 accidental ranked the other day.

Hooray finally someone to play with. Also, do you play midnight matches? Because in my zone morning is night for you. (I counted)
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Permalink | Quote | PM | +Rep by Bunkansee » August 21, 2014 3:43am | Report
Unscathed wrote:


Hooray finally someone to play with. Also, do you play midnight matches? Because in my zone morning is night for you. (I counted)

I stay up pretty late. I don't have school until mid/late septemberish so I don't need all that much sleep :p

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Permalink | Quote | PM | +Rep by Unscathed » August 21, 2014 3:46am | Report
Bunkansee wrote:


I stay up pretty late. I don't have school until mid/late septemberish so I don't need all that much sleep :p


Are you sure? I think its going to like 2AM or something. Wish im not 13 and have my own home D:
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Permalink | Quote | PM | +Rep by Bunkansee » August 21, 2014 3:53am | Report
Unscathed wrote:



Are you sure? I think its going to like 2AM or something. Wish im not 13 and have my own home D:

Well let's figure it out when it comes down to it. Just message me whenever you want to play a match and we can figure out the times. I mean, I can stay up til maybe 11:00PM and then there are those times I can;t/don't feel like sleeping :p

If your day is my night, then is my day your night? We can probably sort something out, I play with a friend who lives in America which is a 5 hour difference.

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Permalink | Quote | PM | +Rep by Unscathed » August 21, 2014 4:49am | Report
Bunkansee wrote:


Well let's figure it out when it comes down to it. Just message me whenever you want to play a match and we can figure out the times. I mean, I can stay up til maybe 11:00PM and then there are those times I can;t/don't feel like sleeping :p

If your day is my night, then is my day your night? We can probably sort something out, I play with a friend who lives in America which is a 5 hour difference.


I can knly play friday afternoon and Saturday-Sunday morning. I may also play saturday night. Either way, looking forward for your CM!
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Permalink | Quote | PM | +Rep by DonnyDonnowitz » August 21, 2014 8:51am | Report
While you may not want to hear this (and most people don't) but unless you are ONLY playing support heroes it's not your teammates fault that you are stuck at 1.6k. The Swiftending/Juice experiment(as well as ones done by other people) pretty much showed us that if you are truly better than the people you play with you will have a high enough impact to ensure you win games.

As I said most people don't like hearing they are at the MMR they deserve, but in fact it should be reassuring and liberating to know that you are in control of your MMR level and not at the mercy of 4 random people you get paired up with.

I was originally calibrated at 3414 MMR and after a couple months I dropped to 3k and hung around there not going up or down more than 100 points. After watching the Swiftending experiment and taking some advice from the thread I quickly rose up to 3.6k and I'm now at 3.8k. So I've gone up a total of 800MMR from where I was at and I'm 400MMR higher than my calibration.

So my tips for you...

1) Watch pro-twitch streams and matches. I got significantly better after watching TI3/TI4. I was relatively new to DOTA when TI3 was going on and I never even knew about creep pulling in the safe lane nor had I ever seen a tri-lane before until I watched TI3.

2) The highest impact position is typically the mid. I found my best mid hero (which was Viper) and raised my self 400MMR in a couple of days and went on some long win streaks. Don't avoid supports if your team needs them but typically Mids, carries, and offlaners are going to have a much higher impact on the game than a support.

3) Don't over extend...People tend to chase a single kill like the game hinges on killing that one hero at that exact time. Of course a lot of the time it fails and their either don't get the kill or they end up getting the kill than dying to the enemies team carry etc... Get kills but make it a sure thing. Even if you are being denied farm there is no point in rushing into a group of creeps for a last hit if you end up dying. You now have less gold than before and you just fed the other team XP and gold and made the gap larger. Be patient.

4) Mute negative teammates and you yourself don't be negative. The guys that call GG after the first team fight or who are constantly ranking on your item/skill build are detrimental to your team and their attitude will most likely contribute to a loss. Remember the people you are playing with are your same MMR so most likely their game knowledge is about the same as yours.

5) Did I mention not to over-extend and be patient?

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Permalink | Quote | PM | +Rep by Dimonychan » August 21, 2014 9:53am | Report

While you may not want to hear this (and most people don't) but unless you are ONLY playing support heroes it's not your teammates fault that you are stuck at 1.6k. The Swiftending/Juice experiment(as well as ones done by other people) pretty much showed us that if you are truly better than the people you play with you will have a high enough impact to ensure you win games.

As I said most people don't like hearing they are at the MMR they deserve, but in fact it should be reassuring and liberating to know that you are in control of your MMR level and not at the mercy of 4 random people you get paired up with.

I was originally calibrated at 3414 MMR and after a couple months I dropped to 3k and hung around there not going up or down more than 100 points. After watching the Swiftending experiment and taking some advice from the thread I quickly rose up to 3.6k and I'm now at 3.8k. So I've gone up a total of 800MMR from where I was at and I'm 400MMR higher than my calibration.

So my tips for you...

1) Watch pro-twitch streams and matches. I got significantly better after watching TI3/TI4. I was relatively new to DOTA when TI3 was going on and I never even knew about creep pulling in the safe lane nor had I ever seen a tri-lane before until I watched TI3.

2) The highest impact position is typically the mid. I found my best mid hero (which was Viper) and raised my self 400MMR in a couple of days and went on some long win streaks. Don't avoid supports if your team needs them but typically Mids, carries, and offlaners are going to have a much higher impact on the game than a support.

3) Don't over extend...People tend to chase a single kill like the game hinges on killing that one hero at that exact time. Of course a lot of the time it fails and their either don't get the kill or they end up getting the kill than dying to the enemies team carry etc... Get kills but make it a sure thing. Even if you are being denied farm there is no point in rushing into a group of creeps for a last hit if you end up dying. You now have less gold than before and you just fed the other team XP and gold and made the gap larger. Be patient.

4) Mute negative teammates and you yourself don't be negative. The guys that call GG after the first team fight or who are constantly ranking on your item/skill build are detrimental to your team and their attitude will most likely contribute to a loss. Remember the people you are playing with are your same MMR so most likely their game knowledge is about the same as yours.

5) Did I mention not to over-extend and be patient?


Let's do not forget that Juice had a lot more MMR and years o DotA and Dota 2 experience. MMR boosters basically do the same - use their huge skill and experience advantage to raise the MMR of an account rapidly. Most of those who want to raise their MMR, however, rarely deserve more than a thousand more MMR than they have and as such their way is long and frustrating.

It may be all my stupid and uneducated opinion but for me it looks like:

Let's assume nearly quarter of games are won or lost without any chance to influence this - extremely bad picks(famous 5 core heroes), or intentional feeders on either of the team.

Then, let's assume another quarter is very likely to be won by one of the teams from the start - excessive lane feeding, net worth disadvantage result in general weakness of the team and only a player with a high skill advantage, like Juice can carry them.

And let's assume the rest of the games are more or less even, with more or less skill requiring for a single player to carry them.

Now all of these ideally(like in 500+ games) will happen to almost everyone, so some part of the games are won or lost already, some part can be hardly carried, some require less advantage to influence then, and so on.

So, a player that deserves that MMR will stay here, as his influence is roughly 1/10 of the total influence and he will rarely carry any games and will most likely experience a "win-lose-win-lose" streak unless he gets better. A player with a bit more skill will have a little bigger influence on the game and can turn the tables of the most even games with such an advantage, therefore, acquiring some extra points over time until he gets what he deserves. A player with slightly more skill will be able to influence less even games, granting him more rapid MMR boost and so on. Juice's winrate decreased as he progressed that IMO indicated there were less games left he could influence with his skill.

But unless you have huge skill advantage over the players you face in ranked currently, this system will need a LONG time to work.

Dunno why I have written this, maybe to emphasis you should not bother increasing your MMR when you feel your advantage is only slight. Of course, this isn't the only variable, friendliness, communication, psychology and behavior helps too.

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Permalink | Quote | PM | +Rep by DonnyDonnowitz » August 22, 2014 6:58am | Report
Dimonychan wrote:
Let's do not forget that Juice had a lot more MMR and years o DotA and Dota 2 experience. MMR boosters basically do the same - use their huge skill and experience advantage to raise the MMR of an account rapidly. Most of those who want to raise their MMR, however, rarely deserve more than a thousand more MMR than they have and as such their way is long and frustrating.


True..but the point I was making was that Juice proved that bad teammates won't be able to keep you below the MMR you deserve. The OP brought up in a previous post about bad teammates so I thought I'd reference the Juice experiment.

Quoted:

Let's assume nearly quarter of games are won or lost without any chance to influence this - extremely bad picks(famous 5 core heroes), or intentional feeders on either of the team.

Then, let's assume another quarter is very likely to be won by one of the teams from the start - excessive lane feeding, net worth disadvantage result in general weakness of the team and only a player with a high skill advantage, like Juice can carry them.


I would have to disagree and so those are pretty lofty assumptions. Out of my 1000 games played I can for sure say far less than 10% were un-winnable. In fact I could count on my hands the number of times I had intentional feeders that threw games on purpose, though it does happen.


Quoted:
Juice's winrate decreased as he progressed that IMO indicated there were less games left he could influence with his skill.

But unless you have huge skill advantage over the players you face in ranked currently, this system will need a LONG time to work.

Dunno why I have written this, maybe to emphasis you should not bother increasing your MMR when you feel your advantage is only slight. Of course, this isn't the only variable, friendliness, communication, psychology and behavior helps too.


Juice's winrate decreased but to something like 75% from 5k to 5.4k before he stopped at 5.4k. Naturally as you get closer and closer to your 'true' MMR your influence on the outcome of the game will decrease because the people you are playing with/against are around your skill level. However do note that even when Juice was at 4.4k (1000 below his end point) he was still rolling over teams without a problem.

When most players talk about raising their MMR and having bad teammates I get the impression they want to raise their MMR more than 100-300 points. I think people want to go up 500-1000 which is a noticeable difference in skill. Since I went from 3k to 3.8k I've noticed a huge difference in skill as well as attitude(it's much worse...and my 4k friends say its even worse there)

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Permalink | Quote | PM | +Rep by Dimonychan » August 22, 2014 8:29am | Report
Well, I guess you're right though I only brought up the numbers for example, from nowhere actually as I don't have any good statistics on than point. And games are not lost by intentional feeders only, poor gameplay and picks are what ruins games the most. I guess I missed some valuable factors either way I really don't see how Juice managed to keep his winrate that high even when close to his actual skill level.

Quoted:
When most players talk about raising their MMR and having bad teammates I get the impression they want to raise their MMR more than 100-300 points. I think people want to go up 500-1000 which is a noticeable difference in skill. Since I went from 3k to 3.8k I've noticed a huge difference in skill as well as attitude(it's much worse...and my 4k friends say its even worse there)

Other question is - do they deserve that MMR? Players can't have any straight idea of what MMR they deserve, and minding ignorance and big ego of most Dota 2 players their expectations are quite too high most of the time. I've seen such people very often(god, I was one of them at the very beginning of my Dota 2 experience and 2k MMR I calibrated to were what I truly deserved besides thinking otherwise).

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