viper question

If you want to initiate you get blink. =D
It is really hard to have detection against shadow blade initiaton so it isnt that much better in lower pubs. The only sentries you usually see are at towers and there it isnt that usefull.

My biggest problem with it is the price for what it gives. It doesnt help at his playstyle at all.

Unless you're Clockwerk or Viper, then Aghanim's Scepter is better 8{3

To the OP, the reason that you see pros getting mek + agh's is that they don't view Viper as a hero who carries games like, say, a Luna does. Viper's skills at the pro level are focused more on his passive, Corrosive Skin, and his ult, Viper Strike, as opposed to snowballing with his other two skills. For that role, mek gives him stats, armor, and a great heal that helps the team, which is important in pro games where teamwork is necessary. The agh's gives viper more hp, mana, armor, attack speed, just about everything, basically, so it helps him last longer in fights and also upgrades his ult to a 20 second cooldown, which is very spammable and very deadly, as it renders a hero unable to run or fight effectively unless they are spell-based heroes (but those are usually squishy and will die to a few hits from viper anyway).

On the opposite side, Viper in pub games is more of a carry who likes to get damage items and such to snowball out of control. This build is not very team-oriented and will give you that feeling of power that you like to have from carry heroes. I've played Viper here and there, and I usually like the mek+agh's build more, but there are some games where it's useful to get a yasha or shadow blade first.

Hopefully this helps. :)

You can carry pubs with a Viper however, Shadow Blade into Yasha is really a bad item choice on the hero.

The reason for this is that, Viper is mainly built to soak up a lot of damage and prolong the fight. If you look at his skills, Poison Attack and Viper Strike are very strong DoT skills. Corrosive Skin lets you tank magic damage and return it to your attacker. Nethertoxin is a skill that only gets better as the fight keeps going on.

Where I'm going with this is that, Viper isn't a burst heavy hero. Typically, you would build a Shadow Blade on burst heavy heroes that run around the map, initiate with Shadow Blade, burst down an enemy hero, and repeat.

Viper on the other hand, you want to stand there and manfight your enemy. This automatically contradicts your "escape mechanism" in Shadow Blade.. As a Viper, you shouldn't be escaping. Early game, building a Mekansm gives you what you need to survive - good HP regen, good armor and burst HP regen. With a Mekansm and Power Treads alone, you can manfight pretty much any hero in the mid game.

On a Viper, build items that let you tank up damage, and you'll never go back to a Shadow Blade build again. When the game starts, grab a set of Tangoes and a Wraith Band. As soon as you get 450 gold, buy Boots of Speed, then rush the Mekansm. I prefer getting the Mekansm even before upgraded boots. Once you have the mek, finish Power Treads, and upgrade your Wraith Band into Ring of Aquila. Then, start working on Aghanim's Scepter. With the scepter, your ultimate will be a LOT more effective. 900 range and 12 second cooldown on a gamebreaking ultimate is simply too good to pass up.

At this point, you have two options. Either build a Black King Bar if the enemy is high on lockdown/magic damage, or go straight for a Heart of Tarrasque. After this, any item you pick up is a luxury. Go for Butterfly, Pipe of Insight, Boots of Travel, whatever you want :)

I still think shadow blade is worth it on viper in low level pubs, where nobody on your team will help you to initiate fights. Even blink is ok, just to make sure you stomp them hard. And you can still get your mek + Aghanim's and follow up with the same item build.


But then again, nooberinos would walk towards viper by themselves and be like "I can take 'em!"

The thing though is, pubbers never use a Shadow Blade to initiate.. They always use it as an escape mechanism (which it isn't, for any semi-decent player).. However, even as an escape mechanism, it isn't needed, since a Mekansm viper can pretty much tank the damage and walk out more easily compared to a Shadow Blade viper..

However, I do see your point.. Low level pubs might not bother with sentries/dust.. I just don't think the SB escape is worth it even in this situation, because, why escape when you can kill them and TP away..

An early mek on a Viper can really help with that early game where the Viper is so strong. It also frees up the supports from having to go mek which usually means they get an aghs instead. An earlier aghs on SS or Lich or WD or whoever can really help.