Ideas on how to make Spirit Breaker less...Pub Friendly? IDK what the word would be...

Afternoon all.

So I generally play exclusively all-pick public Dota with a couple of friends. We usually do quite well but one of our major gripes is The Space Cow, especially for me as I specialise in squishy supports.

I've read up on a number of ways to counter him, but I really think all of his abilities' mechanics should be modified slightly to make him less suited for people who just want to pubstomp (I mean, I know he's considered a trash hero in the higher brackets but it doesn't take an intricate knowledge of game mechanics to absolutely murder as him in my bracket).

Anyway so, here's a list of mechanical changes they could to do stop him being the go-to hero for newer players (just a side-track: my 9-year old cousin plays Spirit Breaker almost exclusively and has gone 15/2 before despite basically losing every game as other heroes):

-Make it so Charge of Darkness cannot be cancelled: Not being able to back out of a Charge would add some sense of risk to going in, and would force players to consider the viability of charging the first lonely cross they see on the minimap.

-Make Greater Bash work like Storm Spirit's Overload: A major complaint lategame is that once Spirit Breaker's attack speed is high enough, heroes don't really get a chance to get out of the continuous stunlock caused by his attacks. If this bash only activated following a Charge/Ulti he wouldn't really be able to just completely lock someone down.

ALTERNATELY

-Have Greater Bash's PROC a statistical equation: I'm not really good with writing out equations, but say the PROC of Greater Bash was scaled to his attack speed (reducing as the time between his attacks reduces) instead of being universally set to 17%.

ALTERNATELY

-Stop Greater Bash going through magic immunity: This would add another situational counter to the arsenal of Spirit Breaker's enemies.

-Netherstrike no longer granting Magic Immunity: This would stop Sprit Breaker being able to ult his way out of a poorly judged charge.

This would just make the hero useless. He's supposed to specialize in ganking and locking down single targets. If pubstomping is a problem, then I honestly think he's inferior to other picks ( Lifestealer, Tidehunter, etc).

Would actually like to see him get some love in competitive games. From what I know Meepo has been receiving more picks than him.

Edit: I think the Overload change would actually be a decent early game buff by giving him 4 reliable bashes and less reliance on dumb luck. What kind of support buys magic immunity (other than Omniknight)?

For Greater Bash i think a higher cooldown or lower stun duration would achieve something similar.
as for now, on Level 4 Greater Bash stuns for 1.6 seconds, while it's cooldown is *only* 1.5 seconds.
With enough dumb luck anyone can get perma-stunned and killed (I've seen often enough how ganked on SB just stunlocked the ganker to death!)

Another Solution:
Give Greater Bash friggin' Mana Cost. When It procs it costs X Mana, if he has no more mana, he cannot bash!
Spirit Breaker has more than enough mana with only 2 fairly low Mana Cost skills (100 and 175 = 275 *sarcasm* SOOOO MUCH MANA!! */sarcasm*)
On lvl 25 without Items he has 1003.6 Mana ... So he could perform this combo 3.6 times... counting mana regen it may be 4 times.

With Bash costing mana, he would burn himself out pretty fast, and couldn't set up new ganks as fast and therefor not snowballing out of controll

Of course all of this is from the point of view of a pub player who hasn't played much but watched very much games! :D

Bara is not a pubstomp hero, he's rubbish all the time.. :)

I see what your saying, but nerfing an already rubbish hero, is not the way to do it.

Any hero, pubstomper, but poor in high skill matches, needs to have 1 or more skills reset to something new altogether.

Look at Huskar for example - on paper, and in pub matches - he's a stomper, but high skill, nothing. so they reworked his skills - to something new altogether, and currently testing the skill balance.

Do the same with Bara - (ideally), but in reality he's rubbish. Bounty Hunter is much better at doing the same job (and safer), and everyone gets a bit more cash for it too!!

Its fine, just buy a Ghost Scepter.

sadly, I thought about wulfstans idea here before and it makes sense

Just buy a ghost scepter

Most if not all bashs go through magic immunity so changing that wouldnt make a difference. If you have a disable, it will stop his charge so warding is important against him which is why he is rarely seen in pro games. Place them alongthe river and you get sight of him. Remember each time one of his ganks fails and he has to stop charge, he loses out on xp and gold.

Another way is to just burst him down in teamfights, SB players rarely build defensive/STR/HP gain items so a few disables and auto attacks will easily kill him especially if he has MoM activated.

The 1,2,3 players can deal with an SB fine and supports just need to have some map awareness for when he is cahrging to stun or ghost scepter.

This...SB is only good if you feed him. If his ganks are successful (and they will be if he can get you alone and unaware), he'll get out of control. If they're not (due to wards, disabled during charge, etc.) he'll be underfarmed/underleveled and not much of a threat.

Map awareness and vision are the best ways to shut him down, and it's no coincidence that these two things are usually absent in the lower brackets where he tends to do well.

You say this, yet the numbers prove SB is a pubstomper. Yeah he is terrible at high skill brackets, but that should not be considered when it comes to pubs.

My point, in a situation where 5 random people, who are probably not communicating, have trouble locking down a semi-decent player on SB because of his skill set. Does he need a drastic change? Probably, but only in the form of making him better for pro matches.

I understand your point - but your example - 5 random people, no communication etc etc - there are loads of heroes great at stomping pubs.. Slark, Gondar, night stalker, PUDGE - all require some level of skills, and can snow ball like mad.. don't forget the wisp combo..

Barathrum is not OP, even in pubs - he's a "two-click" hero so quite easy to use.. but definitely not OP.. if anything ICEfrog needs to improve bara, make him stronger - or he'll never see the light of day in pro matches..