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1 Votes

A Supporter's Guide to Lich

March 28, 2013 by TMGames
Comments: 14    |    Views: 43683    |   


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TMGames | March 31, 2013 3:48am
Thanks to Sando for explaining both sides to this debacle. Appreciate, mate.
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TMGames | March 30, 2013 7:26pm


That doesn't make sense to me. As I said before, when playing hard support competitive teams usually get their Arcane Boots in ~15-20 minutes or rush their Boots of Speed + Mekansm in ~25 minutes: if you want an item that costs 4200 gold, considering that you have to buy plain Boots and Meka you'll normally get it by ~40-50 minutes unless you steal kills and farm from your carry. Instead, you can buy a Force Staff by ~35 minutes or a Ghost Scepter at the ~30-35 minute mark.


I simply feel that Lich has huge potential late game to end team fights. That's the reason I go Agha. Force Staff is perfectly valid, and I'll probably try running it and modify the guide as needed. As for Ghost Scepter, I've never used it and can't give an opinion. I'll see how it works, though.


What? You would sell it mid game? Either you're playing a carry Lich or you're stealing farm from your carry, i've never played a match that lasted so much that I had to sell an item.


I just feel that it loses potency after 30 minutes. Just me.

Quoted:

I guess our playing styles differ, but it's nice to see someone explaning things you would never do/have done before and give a valid reason for that. :D


Hey, thanks for the feedback man. It's my first guide, and I'll definitely take the criticism into consideration.
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TMGames | March 30, 2013 7:22pm
Wisdomseyes1 wrote:

"The reason I don't get sac first is, well, you don't need it yet. It's not a necessity. If you're nuking, your job is damage, not denies."

you are getting Sac to deny?

I feel that is a very bad reason to get sac... personally.


Lich isn't a hard support. His main job is to deny your own creeps out of a lane so that the enemy heroes are stuck with no farm early game. You let your carry sit and last hit off the tower.
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Sando (118) | March 30, 2013 5:40pm
Always an important point to remember as a Support...your job is not just to help your carry farm, you want to deny the enemy as much as possible too - in some ways denies are more important than last hits. You not only stop the enemy getting gold, you slow their xp too - DOTA is all about relative power - if you keep the enemy starved, you're making your team more powerful compared to them.

This is Lich's most important job - his real strength is his ability to slow the enemy down, control the lane, and help his carry - that influence spreads throughout the game. Frost Armour is relative (probably your best ability late game), but can be well worth a point early on. Your nuke is most effective against solo heroes IMHO, and you really need Sacrifice to power it so you're not wasting money on consumables.

Agree completely with wisdomeyes on Salves and Tangos - 1 each works best as you don't know what situations you might end up in a lane, and Salve is actually more cost effective for the amount of healing you get.

Personally I usually go Aghanim's Scepter on Lich after Mekansm...but yeah it does depend WHEN in the game this is - if you've got lots of assists and your team has pushed towers early on, it's worth getting ASAP. If the game goes later before you can afford it, you might well be better off with Force Staff or Ghost Scepter as the extra nuke power is much less effective at this point.
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Wisdomseyes1 (8) | March 30, 2013 4:15pm
Quoted:
The reason I don't get sac first is, well, you don't need it yet. It's not a necessity. If you're nuking, your job is damage, not denies.


you are getting Sac to deny?

I feel that is a very bad reason to get sac... personally.

Start the game- Go to where the first creep wave spawns, eat a ranged creep ASAP, and watch the magic. The lane will push towards you no matter how well your opponents block/lane control.

This gives your carry more farm or your opponents mid/carry less farm depending on what lane you are in.

Quoted:
I feel that, when running support, Lich's job becomes to slow the opponent(s) for his laning partner(s) to gank, not to deal out massive damage.


Lich's nuke slows. Ice Armor slows if the enemy is a melee hero and attacks the one with the buff. WHich is why I consider Ice armor situational.

At that, harassing with basically no mana issues will force consumables on the enemies and force them back, giving more room for your carry to farm.
1
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Wisdomseyes1 (8) | March 30, 2013 4:15pm
"The reason I don't get sac first is, well, you don't need it yet. It's not a necessity. If you're nuking, your job is damage, not denies."

you are getting Sac to deny?

I feel that is a very bad reason to get sac... personally.

Start the game- Go to where the first creep wave spawns, eat a ranged creep ASAP, and watch the magic. The lane will push towards you no matter how well your opponents block/lane control.

This gives your carry more farm or your opponents mid/carry less farm depending on what lane you are in.

"I feel that, when running support, Lich's job becomes to slow the opponent(s) for his laning partner(s) to gank, not to deal out massive damage."

Lich's nuke slows. Ice Armor slows if the enemy is a melee hero and attacks the one with the buff. WHich is why I consider Ice armor situational.

At that, harassing with basically no mana issues will force consumables on the enemies and force them back, giving more room for your carry to farm.
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Peppo_oPaccio (70) | March 30, 2013 9:35am
TMGames wrote:

@Peppo: I list Agha because it simply is good on Lich. You are right in saying it's kinda useless on a support, but Lich shouldn't be the ONLY support on a team. Lich thrives in a dual soft-support team (for instance, if there is a Witch Doctor or a Necrolyte). And the order would be Boots, Mek, then Agha. Not Boots, Agha, Mek.

That doesn't make sense to me. As I said before, when playing hard support competitive teams usually get their Arcane Boots in ~15-20 minutes or rush their Boots of Speed + Mekansm in ~25 minutes: if you want an item that costs 4200 gold, considering that you have to buy plain Boots and Meka you'll normally get it by ~40-50 minutes unless you steal kills and farm from your carry. Instead, you can buy a Force Staff by ~35 minutes or a Ghost Scepter at the ~30-35 minute mark.

TMGames wrote:

I personally don't like Magic Wand in general because I always have to sell it mid game, and I'd rather just use the money to rush mek.

What? You would sell it mid game? Either you're playing a carry Lich or you're stealing farm from your carry, i've never played a match that lasted so much that I had to sell an item. In the longest matches I usually end with Magic Wand, two utility items ( Force Staff, Blink Dagger, Ghost Scepter, Urn of Shadows, Drum of Endurance...), one (or rarely two) late game item like the Scythe of Vyse and Wards, Boots and/or TP scrolls.


I guess our playing styles differ, but it's nice to see someone explaning things you would never do/have done before and give a valid reason for that. :D
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TMGames | March 30, 2013 4:00am
@Wisdomeyes: There's nothing wrong in maxing Blast first. It's just a preference thing. As a support, I like to get Sac, Blast, and then maxing Sac. I feel that, when running support, Lich's job becomes to slow the opponent(s) for his laning partner(s) to gank, not to deal out massive damage. When Nuking I max Blast first for obvious reasons. The reason I don't get sac first is, well, you don't need it yet. It's not a necessity. If you're nuking, your job is damage, not denies.
As for the second build, I didn't take the time to slow down and check how much money I was using. The builds still need massive amounts of editing, it is my first one after all. I didn't realize how much money I was not spending.
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