Agility Heroes Like Clinkz are Inferior

Learn from new games like torchlight where agility actually increases crit chance.

And don't make the chance to crit so luck based, 20% is hardly a reliable %.

33 % is the perfect degree of reliability... then tone down the crit damage from 175% to something like 140% damage.



The 33.333333% chance figure is a great figure because it's the same odds as winning in black jack.

You can't rely on winning...

But you can rely on getting lucky.

There's still a spark of reliability.

So you say attack speed and armor is not as good as hp/hp regen or mp/mp regen.

1 agi gives you 1 atk speed and 1/7 armor
1 str gives you 17 hp and .03 hp regen
1 mp gives you 19 mp and .04 mp regen.

Seems balanced to me. I dont see how having more HP or MP is so much better than having attack speed.

If AGI gave crit, then chrysalis and daedulus have to be taken out or severely modified. In addition, every hero would have crit, since every hero has AGI.

If AGI gave movespeed, then AGI heroes could easily kite every other hero in the game.

If AGI gave dodge chance, then MKB would rhape too hard, Every hero would have dodge, as again every hero has AGI.

There is a mana leach item, Diffusal Blade. Unless you mean Spell Vamp. its addition would cause Spells being able to scale. And for Spell Vamp to be effective, I think spells have to scale.

'Everything is a joke competitively until these issues are resolved.'
Have you played a Dota 2 game? Did it feel that unbalanced for you to say that?

Those are 2 different games with 2 different sets of rules.
What made dota different is things like this. different rules unlike the traditional ones. And you have to learn this rules be good.

Strength heores' hp and hp regen is not only exclusive to strength heroes, they simply have more of it.

Life and Mana are indeed pecial resources, but what makes agi heroes special are their agi gain which increases attack speed. They don't have that much mana and hp, but they can hit faster than everyone else. take drow, naix and windrunner for example. The 3 of them can attack fast, but the other 2 need their skills or items to be on par or faster than drow.

Now we do know drow's ulti is really a big difference so it doesn't equal out. But let's talk now about primary attribute. If for example 3 heroes of different attributes would invest in eaglesong. All 3 of them would have the same increase in attack speed. But only the agi hero would also get damage because it's his primary attribute. so the agi hero has greater advantage because not only does he hits faster, he hits harder.

p.s. i need to go would add stuff later.

Well, Since obviously people will disagree with me for their weak reasons, I have some very serious compassion for the people who like to play clinkz and know that he is most definitely at a disadvantage to the other heroes.

So here is my strategy guide for how to play him, how to survive until the late game.

-Start out with Wand, Strength Gloves, Ring of Armor, and Tangos.

-Chose the top or bottom position, which ever one makes the shop most easily accessible so that you can purchase 2x more strength gloves.

-Turn your armor ring in to a ring of basilus, and then in to a ring of aquila at your leasure.

-Use one pair of strength gloves to make jango of endurance, and the other 2 for the earn of shadows.

-The point to wand and earn of shadows is this... I've talked to some people about clinkz and they say that he is such a glass cannon that he is actually suppose to die, when you use wand and get the strength gloves to get to earn of shadows, it should make your unfortunate supposed inevitable deaths as meaningful as possible with wand and urn charges.

-Put 1 point in to fire arrow, use it to farm, 1 in to windwalk, and the rest all in to stats, yes, stats, the added strength with the strength gloves will help.

-Later, put 1-3 point in to strafe, and only use strafe with modifiers like life leach and or armor reduction.

-At this point you want to start the progressive safety build at the secret shop starting with lesser rings of regeneration in to greater rings of regeneration.

Both rings will progressively get you in to awesome protective gear, and eventually you'll almost become invincible.

Save one slot for a divine rapier, and sell something lesser later to replace with a Daedius.

GG, gl hf.

Your starting items aren't the great. They only delay your Orchid. If you're having a rough lane, then maybe a Ring of Aquilla is fine, but a drum and urn are unnecessary. Clinkz isn't supposed to die, but buying those small strength items isn't going to help his squishiness much. Clinkz is about positioning, and making sure you have his ult used on a creep before you fight. If you play smart with Clinkz, you stand a lesser chance of dying. It's not about being tanky, it's about engaging in a good position and using your orchid on the right enemy.

All heroes have their disadvantages and advantages, one of clinkz major disadvantage is his terrible HP pool, that's a fact. His advantage though is his insane single target damage, which is what he is picked/played for, nothing else. Raw damage is what makes his quota and a farmed Clinkz can solo any hard carry until they got their late game items.

His playstyle is like Nyx Assassin's style which is to pop-up and burst that hero down, that's it. How are other people's reason weak and your reasonings are stronger?

the more I read in this thread the more it seems like trolling to me...
just don't feed the troll

I'm glad someone here is finally acknowledging the fact that his HP more then qualifies for the description of "Terrible". His damage far from makes up for this hp early game, which just so happens to also be when spells are the most powerful. Spells are more powerful early game and become continually weaker until refresher orb and orchid. It's interesting how, conversely, clinkz starts out weak and his spells, or should I say "spell" Strafe becomes more powerful since it functions with the weapons used.

Clinkz has skeloton walk, but early game it's simply not enough which more then justifies the life/strength direction from the start, and you might as well stay in that direction and build charges on your wand and urn while invis, then coordinate a team gank casting both urn and medallion of courage on target to ensure the kill. Whoever says that clinkz can't tank or shouldn't tank is mindless... he makes for the best tank as he can be a distraction with these defensive items combined with this death packed, and once they think they have you killed, you just disappear and let your team clean up.

Like I said, divine rapier and daedius is all clinkz needs while the rest should be defensive items.

I found skeleton walk useless unless you can stay alive long enough to make it through the stuns and holds that enemies put on you, and that takes a lot more then you think.

He has his ultilate to make up for his HP.Just snack on an Ursa/Centaur/Wildkin/Satyr.

Ah yes, death pact.... exactly. You see, there is a deeper concept going on here that can actually be traced back to where this game came from... Warcraft 3. After clinkz gets urn and medallion of courage, he needs blade mail and mask of madness, here's why...

In warcraft 3 melee, I was always bewildered by how weak the archer was and how everyone started out with hunts. I personally found that the huntress, over time, was almost equally horrible of a unit to get, even with faerie fire and the late game glaive bounce. Why? because they just simply get destroyed by longer range glass cannon + focus fire.

So I decided to milk the archer for everything it was worth, trying every build and approach under the sun. I eventually concluded that archers were more progressive then hunts because of how they can ride on hippogryphs, which in turn are great for protecting double roost chimeras.. which is quite viable to do on one base, you'll get about 4 chimeras out real fast if you pull a few wisps off gold to lumber during the tree of eternity tech.

But it wasn't until I realized how critical the KOG was with the archer that everything started to make sense. I would start by making Ancient of war first, moonwell second while 3 wisps on gold. After this I pump a total of 5 wisps, 2 back on gold and the next 3 wisps to lumber (5th wisp made a little while after 4th to maintain constant archer/moonwell production).

KOG production starts along with 3rd moonwell. You end up having like 5 archers and 1 kog for a timed attack at which point you bum rush the opponent using entangle to catch any prey for focus fire. DON'T WASTE ANY ENTANGLES ON HEROES. The archers won't work forever against melee, which is why you turn around and get level 1, maybe even level 2 thorns asap by killing enemy creeps... This approach is just devastating to human and orc opponents, good against undead unless they decide a mass pull off of ghouls, and even decent against hunts initially with entangle but obviously not for long.

The ultimate, ULTIMATE concept is this... If you have an undead *Ally who uses the life leach aura, and you get fairie fire... this combo is seriously insane if you are using thorns + true shot aura.... Their armor is reduced and if below zero, you do amplified damage. This in return could mean amplified life leach. The entangle + focus fire holds is just adding insult to injury.

So if you truly understand clinkz, and how important reducing the enemies armor is, you can utilize a combo like clinkz + slarder to truly see a Godzilla Clinkz like you've never seen before... Mask of Madness + Strafe + initial defensive approach + medallion of courage + blade mail + amp damage for slarder = God clinkz if you can get it all working in harmony together and it's really not as hard to do as it sounds...

Clinkz will steal so much life back that he won't die, and return damage with blademail to decimate opponents... and if he has low life at the end and is a target for anyone else? He just goes invisible and runs away.


I seriously think that either clinkz is underpowered, or people have simply been playing him very wrongly, because they have the wrong idea...

The big question is, "why use blade mail on clinkz over a character like life stealer?" The reason why is because as a ranged character, your goal is to take advantage of hits on your opponent as he is running in, and on his way running away from you... the blade mail is perfect for this, you draw them in since you are puny clinkz right? Once they get up close you activate blade mail and get hits as they run on their way out. At this point you can activate your mask of madness which gives the 30% run walk speed to hunt the opponent down. I think a big mistake people might make is using mask of madness when opponents are charging in close to you... even then you still should steal enough life to even be a viable challenge against life stealer.


*Edit: Undead ALly