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6 Votes

The effects of boredom

November 26, 2013 by NinjaFatcats
Comments: 13    |    Views: 16261    |   


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CookedProk | November 28, 2013 3:15pm
Trash Guide Randycat228
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NinjaFatcats (1) | November 27, 2013 12:12am
Yeh...i'll try out Nature's Prophet with dagon and Orchid Malevolence, but "that feel" when you last hit with Bloodseeker (favourite "feel" along with lycanthrope and Pudge)
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Tikru8 (4) | November 27, 2013 12:02am
Ok, so seemingly there is no way of convincing you that your build is .... "sub-optimal". Not my arguments nor the vote you've gotten for your build. Dagon and orchid malevolance is your thing. Then I ask, why don't you pick Nature's Prophet instead of Bloodseeker? NP is a (global) ganker as well, and unlike BS can utilize both items to their full potential: he a) needs extra mana regen if he wants to skip fountain trips b) gets extra damage from the +int of the items, c) has no innate silence himself, d) with Hand of Midas rush can get both items relatively fast and relatively reliably by AFK farming and TP:ing in only as needed.

The build wouldn't be horribly bad against squishy supports and enemies such as Weaver, Storm Spirit, Queen of Pain, Puck etc. providing you get the items fast enough that your combo is enough to actually kill them in 4 seconds: Nature's Call TP in with NP so that they don't see you - Wrath of Nature other side of map -> use Orchid Malevolence -> Sprout-> dagon + > righ-click (maybe -> get kill?
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NinjaFatcats (1) | November 26, 2013 8:18pm
Tikru8 wrote:

Look, BS is an agility ganker / carry. The fact that he is an agi carry means that his main job is to right-click the enemy until they die. His job is not to be a tank (get + str/armor) or caster (get + int/mana regen). Therefore, he gets (relatively) most out of agility and/or damage items - at least once he has enough survivability.

On BS, to cancel TP:s it's ok to get eul's and to force enemy to move under Rupture it's ok to get Force Staff despite the fact that these items do not give him straight right-click damage. But the dago + orchid combo is just money spent in a sub-optimal way:
He is not an int carry, therefore he cannot utilize the +int that you get from dagon / orchid to do extra damage (unlike int (semi-)carries like Nature's Prophet, Silencer or windrunner) nor does he need that much regen or that big of a mana pool as he has exactly 2 spells.

As you have limted gold in DOTA, you must make the most out of your gold if you want to win. For ~7k you could get either a) dagon + orchid or b) eul's + desolator or c) deso + crystalys+ medallion or d) something else.

A BS with a), b) or c) do you think the enemy would fear the most?

P.S: Crystalys synergizes with Medallion of Courage, it doesn't replace it

P.P.S: Why is Radiance on the rejected list? IMHO it is a good situational item in the case if you are far ahead, your team needs a carry and you have a lot of gold after a good team fight. The burn is helpful in team fights and to kill off heroes running away at low hp faster. (However, if you can't get it around ~20 min mark, it's usually best to not get it all.)



a) is based on ganking cos of burst damage and silence, as he is a ganking hero

b) is rather good for a auto attack fight, but he doesn't really need the ms cos he is fast from his passive

c) is pretty good but consumes the most invent space

What you fear most depends on what heroes they are using. Like, if you are Crystal Maiden you will fear a). If you are Pudge you will probably fear b) and c).

P.S: Bloodrage and Orchid Malevolence synergizes with Medallion of Courage

P.P.S: Radiance is rejected as i highlight the ineffectiveness of it in the rejected section
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Tikru8 (4) | November 26, 2013 3:32am
Look, BS is an agility ganker / carry. The fact that he is an agi carry means that his main job is to right-click the enemy until they die. His job is not to be a tank (get + str/armor) or caster (get + int/mana regen). Therefore, he gets (relatively) most out of agility and/or damage items - at least once he has enough survivability.

On BS, to cancel TP:s it's ok to get eul's and to force enemy to move under Rupture it's ok to get Force Staff despite the fact that these items do not give him straight right-click damage. But the dago + orchid combo is just money spent in a sub-optimal way:
He is not an int carry, therefore he cannot utilize the +int that you get from dagon / orchid to do extra damage (unlike int (semi-)carries like Nature's Prophet, Silencer or windrunner) nor does he need that much regen or that big of a mana pool as he has exactly 2 spells.

As you have limted gold in DOTA, you must make the most out of your gold if you want to win. For ~7k you could get either a) dagon + orchid or b) eul's + desolator or c) deso + crystalys+ medallion or d) something else.

A BS with a), b) or c) do you think the enemy would fear the most?

P.S: Crystalys synergizes with Medallion of Courage, it doesn't replace it

P.P.S: Why is Radiance on the rejected list? IMHO it is a good situational item in the case if you are far ahead, your team needs a carry and you have a lot of gold after a good team fight. The burn is helpful in team fights and to kill off heroes running away at low hp faster. (However, if you can't get it around ~20 min mark, it's usually best to not get it all.)
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NinjaFatcats (1) | November 26, 2013 2:25am
Tikru8 wrote:


... which is?

It's hard to justify the +4k gold the orchid as you already have a long silence. If you want mana regen, Urn of Shadows or mana regen and damage aplification, Medallion of Courage should be enough.Dagon could be fun in a pub environmnet (and could potentially stop people tp:ng away from you) but a) it costs a lot b) doesn't help you right-click, making you a one-trick pony. If orchid + dagon is your obsession, why don't you get some hero who can leverage the items' +int as damage and actually needs the mana regen such as Windranger, Nature's Prophet or Silencer (not that it sounds like an optimal build but anyway...)?

If enemies tp:ing away / mana regen is your main concern, why don't you just get Eul's Scepter of Divinity? I know some pro players get it on Night Stalker: it costs only 2700 gold and helps you gank by giving you +40 movement speed (which is one of your main assets), you can cyclone to stop tp:s, channeling spells or take out one enemy hero for a while while you finish off the other one.

Spend the remaning +4 k on some major damage item. Like Desolator. Bloodseeker's "golden time" starts when he hits level 6 and ends when enemy team start 5-man dota. You really should aim for items that help you gank and solo-kill enemies during the "golden time" or you won't be dangerous late game. I honestly don't see how you're gonna get most out of your golden time against any competent enemy if you need to farm 7k gold + crystalys first.



Well said about using the items for different heroes but your a) and b) reason is a bit weird.

You said it cost alot. the cost is like only 30 gold difference...

You also said it doesn't help right click. How does Eul's help? Unless you are suggesting that you're speed will help reach the enemy within a shorter time frame.

But Eul's is actually a pretty good item on Bloodseeker now that you mention it


I think that Desolator is equally as good as Orchid Malevolence f, but i think you should aim for attack speed, which orchid offers as you Bloodrage yourself and silence the enemy with orchid. That means they can't use spells during combat, which is very good. I guess Desolator should be gotten if the enemy has high armour, but thats just situational i guess.

I now realise that Medallion of Courage would probably be better than Crystalys because it lowers their armour, which i think is equivalent to critting the enemy, it offers mana regen and that is cheaper then it. Good suggestion.
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Tikru8 (4) | November 26, 2013 12:08am
NinjaFatcats wrote:


i guess we are entitled to our own opinion. I'm just highlighting the potential this build can offer

... which is?

It's hard to justify the +4k gold the orchid as you already have a long silence. If you want mana regen, Urn of Shadows or mana regen and damage aplification, Medallion of Courage should be enough.Dagon could be fun in a pub environmnet (and could potentially stop people tp:ng away from you) but a) it costs a lot b) doesn't help you right-click, making you a one-trick pony. If orchid + dagon is your obsession, why don't you get some hero who can leverage the items' +int as damage and actually needs the mana regen such as Windranger, Nature's Prophet or Silencer (not that it sounds like an optimal build but anyway...)?

If enemies tp:ing away / mana regen is your main concern, why don't you just get Eul's Scepter of Divinity? I know some pro players get it on Night Stalker: it costs only 2700 gold and helps you gank by giving you +40 movement speed (which is one of your main assets), you can cyclone to stop tp:s, channeling spells or take out one enemy hero for a while while you finish off the other one.

Spend the remaning +4 k on some major damage item. Like Desolator. Bloodseeker's "golden time" starts when he hits level 6 and ends when enemy team start 5-man dota. You really should aim for items that help you gank and solo-kill enemies during the "golden time" or you won't be dangerous late game. I honestly don't see how you're gonna get most out of your golden time against any competent enemy if you need to farm 7k gold + crystalys first.
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NinjaFatcats (1) | November 25, 2013 10:15pm
iG. Reks wrote:

No, just no, so many flaws in this. Orchid and Dagon on BS? No. Yet you reject battle fury which is an important item for BS (mega healing in a creep wave, hp, mp regen + bonus damage). This just makes no sense as I have tried it 9 times and all have failed. Don't even say that i just suck with BS either because i'm one of the best BS players.



Cleave does not necessarily grant you the last hit, it may stuff up the last hit. But i guess its an overall ok item, but i personally reject it, as you can roam and stuff. I'm sure there are probably over a billion variables in dota so you can't really base something on just a couple of games. :D
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NinjaFatcats (1) | November 25, 2013 10:07pm
Tikru8 wrote:

Dagon and orchid on BS? You don't think that +7k gold could be spent a *bit* better?

i guess we are entitled to our own opinion. I'm just highlighting the potential this build can offer
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iG. Reks | November 25, 2013 6:35am
No, just no, so many flaws in this. Orchid and Dagon on BS? No. Yet you reject battle fury which is an important item for BS (mega healing in a creep wave, hp, mp regen + bonus damage). This just makes no sense as I have tried it 9 times and all have failed. Don't even say that i just suck with BS either because i'm one of the best BS players.
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iG. Reks | November 25, 2013 6:35am
No, just no, so many flaws in this. Orchid and Dagon on BS? No. Yet you reject battle fury which is an important item for BS (mega healing in a creep wave, hp, mp regen + bonus damage). This just makes no sense as I have tried it 9 times and all have failed. Don't even say that i just suck with BS either because i'm one of the best BS players.
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Tikru8 (4) | November 25, 2013 4:16am
Dagon and orchid on BS? You don't think that +7k gold could be spent a *bit* better?
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