Please verify that you are not a bot to cast your vote.
DOTAFire is a community that lives to help every Dota 2 player take their game to the next level by having open access to all our tools and resources. Please consider supporting us by whitelisting us in your ad blocker!
Want to support DOTAFire with an ad-free experience? You can support us ad-free for less than $1 a month!
Go Ad-FreeDOTAFire is the place to find the perfect build guide to take your game to the next level. Learn how to play a new hero, or fine tune your favorite DotA hero’s build and strategy.
Copyright © 2019 DOTAFire | All Rights Reserved
However, here is an example where I think
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HMS_b70U_hA
werpwerp, I'm not sure that you understand that my suggestions are situational items and skill picks only: If everything goes "as planned " in lane your core build seems solid and I think I would go for that.
I'm just expressing that I don't feel like the situational items you are suggesting actually benefit Windrunner in the near or long term as much as you might perceive. My build generally is still effective even if you have a bad laning phase and end up 0/3 for most of the reasons I describe. There have been plenty of games that have gone poorly and sitting on a RoB and Boots of Speed for 3-4 levels vs. a Boots of Speed + Void Stone is just a dramatically different level of effectiveness in Windrunner as a character which is the point I'm really trying to make (in fact most games I have one or two early game deaths from either trying to aid an early kill or saving the carry, so this is factored in from my experiences).
With the
I have a huge amount of issue with this line of thinking. First is that you can never have enough disable. It's just not possible. If you are taking any number of enemies out of a team fight for a time you are that much more likely to win. There's never a team where I could feel like too much disable is a bad thing. Second, if you are lacking DPS that is something more to be said with your team's overall composition than your ability to contribute. The best semi-carry games I've ever had with Windrunner had more to do with me just simply not dying and abusing my ever-increasing array of disables and escapes to stymie the enemy's attempts to focus me down than my actual damage output.
The disables help keep your team alive, the mekanism helps keep your team alive. Your escapes help you (or through the
In this match the Dire Windrunner is using
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2NE85amASis
This is a bad and misleading example. During the 39:26 death he was doing about as much damage just shooting at the Alchemist as he was during the focus fire period, just the Alchemist's bonus health disappeared from his ult wearing off. And at the 34:40 Alchemist death the Windrunner is doing nearly no damage. All of the DPS happens after Vengeful and Weaver show up (not to mention Vengeful's bonus damage aura which is not something you can rely on either). I guess that's one of the other things I'm trying to get across-
I still feel the stat gain is more important and is part of why this build stays effective longer. Part of the late game snowball effect is that when you start taking levels in stats you are getting effectively two level's worth of stats. When you can't reliably make it to level 25 as a support getting those free stats sooner rather than later makes you much more durable and lets you keep pace much better. This early stat gain is also why the
P.S: The problem with your math is i.a. that you are not taking magic resistance (min 25 %) into account.
I did in fact take the magic resistance into account "(assuming 25% magic resistance), 345(270 from powershot + 75 from 100 damage, reduced)" so that isn't a problem. Since it's over two seconds you have to imagine that after the 1 second full charge (yes you can release at 60% but for the sake of simplicity) and then one physical attack. There are fewer heros that end up getting extra magic resistance over physical damage resistance.
I do appreciate your comments, I just have to stand firm that from my experience and the math that
In this match the Dire Windrunner is using
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2NE85amASis
P.S: The problem with your math is i.a. that you are not taking magic resistance (min 25 %) into account.
Getting
I have to go back to the point I was making that this is a generally 0 expected farm Windrunner and the build is optimized for that. My issue is fixated mostly on the short lifetime of the item. If you are not getting any farm or only a few kills that early 500 gold out the door truly sets you behind. That's ward money and port money that you just don't have. While I am a huge fan of auras from some of the items
The way I end up looking at it: Powershot = kill money, Shackle = kill money. The more of these you can throw the more money you will make and Basilius/Aquila provides so many fewer opportunities. When I used to go RoB (~50 games)I was perpetually mana starved until I got the
If the worry about losing money concerns you, it's completely sane to just work through buying the full
I watched some pro games and even there Windrunner has often problems with dying a lot, hence RoB or RoA are situationally good but not optimal. Also your lanemate might appreciate the extra armor and mana. Don't forget that RoA actually gives you +12 damage which is not bad early on. If you have RoA then your carry maybe doesn't have to get it but can rush some major items that will make or break the game.
I admit I don't watch many pro games and this is based nearly entirely on my own experience but I find my lane partners are much happier with being able to constantly harass because the
Letting the carry freefarm early game and keeping the enemy out is just the best option compared to whatever trivial aura you can provide. In a pro game I imagine the timings are tighter and coordinated early aggression is more common so I can definitely see waiting to collect 875 gold is more of a risk but at the same time Windrunner is completely useless as a support unless she can shackle on demand.
There are also early kill lanes that she's just bad at, as her window of usefulness is not really in the 1-4 level range so if your lane is like that you may just be stuck either way. I find a
You mentioned
When it comes to
Attacks per Second = (1 + IAS) / BAT = (1+400/100) / 1.5 = 3.33 attacks / second => around 3 times as much. The damage reduction is only 50/40/30% depending on the level of
If you base was 1 attack / second dealing 100 damage (= 100 DPS) with
The problem with your math here is that you didn't take the time to break out the fact that every hit is reduced by armor and it's not a lump addition in damage. Assuming 25% physical reduction 100 DMG at 1 attack/second becomes 75 damage and 3 attacks a second become 112.5/135.0/157.5 DPS which comes out to being 1.5/1.8/2.1 damage a second which really isn't as good and that's assuming you have pristine conditions where you can stand right next to a guy and rain arrows on him. This doesn't include situations where you are chasing a little, firing one or two shots before having to move again which are far more likely. If you could shoot on the run then sure, I would definitely get focus fire every time. I'd much rather use that same 220 mana to do (assuming 25% magic resistance), 345(270 from powershot + 75 from 100 damage, reduced) in the same two seconds as 225/270/314.4. There's also the fact to keep in mind that most the people you want to shoot generally have higher physical damage resistance than magic resistance so the powershot + single shot combo comes out leagues ahead.
Getting those three level of stats earlier gives you health, mana and mana regen (doubled by the
I don't know what to call it but nice, especially if you have a
The main goal of this build is to get something completely reliable as a support and I feel some of these semi-carry items just do not fit the team's needs.
Getting
The
When it comes to
Attacks per Second = (1 + IAS) / BAT = (1+400 [=max attack speed] /100) / 1.5 = 3.33 attacks / second => around 3 times as much. The damage reduction is only 50/40/30% depending on the level of
If you base was 1 attack / second dealing 100 damage (= 100 DPS) with
If no one on your team has it,
I went into this with more detail in my response to Tikru8's post. The fundamental point is that you lose way more usage of your abilities which is more important for being a successful Windrunner.
Also a
This isn't a mid guide, and if you aren't playing a mid or a roamer you really shouldn't be using bottle since depending on your lane it's unlikely you will be getting runes to refill it and going back to well just to refill bottle is goofy. That 600 gold is better served getting the
I said elsewhere that I find the mana regen lacking and prior to just omitting Basilius I ended up buying a
Also since you are playing support, skadi should really not be recommended as kiting plays a limited role when enemies have easy ways of closing the distance late game. Things like [Shiva's Guard]] or
Skadi is a super late game item, and was recommended mainly because of the additional stat bonuses make her more durable and being able to knock down an enemy carry's attack speed and movement speed by 20% can be enough to turn the tides.
Skadi doesn't really end up being a role for kiting, more as a limiter to make the biggest threat less threatening and also prevent people from getting away. With a combination of the
As a third benefit Skadi has is that all the contributing items to the final build are extremely potent on their own, and I feel the final result of 725HP, 575 mana, 25 damage, 25 attack speed, 1 mana regen/second (2 with void stone), .75 HP regen/second, and 3.5 armor to be much more helpful than just Shiva's Guard's +15 armor and int-related goodness. Also I find Point Boosters to be much more reliable to farm for whatever reason. Getting 2700 gold together always seems awkward from just having to buy ports and everything else while 2100 feels to me at least much easier- additionally you only need to buy the point booster and the venom at the secret shop which generally makes the actual logistics of getting the item a lot easier.
EDIT: Just to reiterate the skadi point, the fact that as a normally squishy caster you end up in the 3000 health range gives you tremendous staying power and plenty of health left over to split push without fear of a burst attack. It doesn't matter if they can hit you with two or three crits before you force staff away, you're liable to be likely to survive.
I find
...being her perhaps best-scaling ability into late-game...
To this I must disagree strongly. If you are rolling a support build your damage output is going to be lingering in the 90-120 range and it's going to be reduced down to (45-63) to (60-84). On most enemies where focus fire matters you have to deal with 25% armour so (34-47) to (45-63). So instead of doing (reduced by armour) 67.5 to 90 damage every second you are doing basically about the same damage with perhaps a bit biased to the maxed
The mana cost is the biggest inhibitor for me to get it because by the time I have enough mana and mana regen to offset constantly Powershotting and Shackling as needed I'm already in the 16-18+ range and I'll get
As far as I understand
While
Consider adding
I find that
These can be disassembled into items for a
Also why no
It's a waste of money except when you have a reliable, yet mana hungry lane partner with low-cost mana spells. This is not something you can say as a blanket statement so it was left out. A clarity only restores 100 mana and takes 30 seconds. That's 30 seconds early game where you are prancing around trying to not get hit instead of denying or harassing the enemies in your lane. If it restored 400 in 10 seconds like a
The usual prescription Windrunner Build of Basilius + all skills before stats:
Mana Regen @ 8, Seconds till Powershot (120 Mana):
22*0.04+2.6*6*0.04+0.065 = +1.5; 80 Seconds
Mana Regen @ 16, Seconds till Powershot:
22*0.04+2.6*16*0.04+0.065 = +2.6; 46 Seconds
With this
Mana Regen @ 8, Seconds til Powershot:
(22*0.04+2.6*6*0.04)*2 = +3.0; 40 Seconds
Mana Regen @ 16, Seconds til Powershot:
(22*0.04+2.6*16*0.04+2.6*6*0.04)*2 = +6.3; 19 Seconds
(0.04 is mana regen per point of Int, 2.6 is the per-level increase in int).
My math might be wrong but considering the threshold for infinite power shot is +13.3 regen not to mention you are also using your mana for other things (like Shackle,
Without Void:
32*0.04+2.6*6*0.04+0.065 = +3.0; 40 Seconds
With Void:
(32*0.04+2.6*16*0.04+2.6*6*0.04)*2 = +7.1; 16 Seconds
This is why it's my opinion it's completely suicidal to get a Basilius on Windrunner and any support that has more than one key skill in the ~120 mana range (which is most of them). Additionally if the other team is fielding any mana burn heroes it's just a million times more effective to have regen then try and rely on a pool of mana as a backup.
Level 16 is a goal you are pretty much guaranteed to hit eventually as a hard support, so you need to maximize for that.
Also since you are playing support, skadi should really not be recommended as kiting plays a limited role when enemies have easy ways of closing the distance late game. Things like [Shiva's Guard]] or
I'd suggest a
And no,you cannot attack while ethereal.
However, I disagree with leveling
In some circumstances you can even duel against their carries:
Finish off any surviving opponent with
As far as I understand
Note however that you must have your team around you taking all the heat from the enemy if you want to use
Foes: Long-range burst damage nuke heroes, disablers (stuns & silences) & the usual invisible pestilences that can just squash you instantly with their combo.
Friends: Meat shields, disablers, slowers and other crowd controllers that you can hide behind and help you set up that 2-hero-shackles and allow you to
Consider adding