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since XCO2 isn't active much nowadays, i will be happy to answer your questions :)
Tombstone works wonders as a disable when facing off against 2 heroes and undying isn't the sort of hero to try and duel an enemy hero.He is more of a team-fight oriented hero who just doesn't die and keeps dealing damage.
We generally use him as a walking aura/solo top/pushed, doesn't necessarily initiate with anything other than an ultimate for his aura. It's generally not a good idea to run him without one of the better initiation heroes (Magnus, enigma, DS) as he has no real lockdown, and any team wirth their merits will generally disable and defeat him pretty quick, reload than counter initiate.
Never level Soul Rip over decay and Tombstone. Decay is strongest during the early game, at level 7 solo top or hell, dual top or not in pubs, he has a 4 SEC cd on a nuke that makes him stronger, weakens and can potentially kill soft heroes, soul rip is generally not as effective until later phases when you have the mana to utilize all of your abilities, and can max level soul rip a hero with a ton of zombies around.
Tombstone shouldn't be leveled over decay, max decay means even your level 1 to batons zombies will be able to pick off heroes quickly, it's all about decay, if you're not leveling decay, you're failing to take advantage of one of the most powerful early spells in dota.
Bloodstone and HoT? awfully ambitious for a support hero, better spent on items providing more utility, with decay and more mana you won't need to steal a carries farm to be relevant. Of course if you're utterly rampaging through heroes than why not? Other than that, if you don't get that bloodstone in 15-20 min, you should leave it be.
Honestly, in most situations, Vlads is an underrated item on him, it increases damage and armor, oh yea lifesteal for those that love their melee carries.
Force staff and bkb are self explanatory, and obviously other items as needed, but not going after bloodstone, you can pretty much get bkb and force staff, and be able to transition into support items like Mekanism or Pipe if needed.
Great guide though.
I don't really agree with this general consensus that Ring of Basilius is a good early item. Undying has a very high Int lvl and gain for a Strength hero. By level 3 with 3 branches his Int is already above 33 and so will have higher mana regen with just a Sage's Mask. I understand its benefits for lane aura and armor but I don't think it is an essential early item.
He can clear creep waves easily with tombstone although he isn't strong at it. Although he isn't a true initiator( he lacks a stun and positioning spell) he is godly at teamfights. His ulti has damage amplicfication among other things, tombstone zombies do a good amount of damage and create a slow effect, and decay gives him alot of stregnth. Undying is more of a small pusher as he cant take towers quickly but can clear creep waves.
Thanks, thats why i get my face beaten in when i just run into the enemy team :). I guess hes more of a Tinker pusher then. Also, positioning spells and stuns don't make someone an initiator, look at Sand King. Sure he has a stun, but hes initiates with Epicenter. Aoe damage OR Aoe stuns makes someone a initiator.
He can clear creep waves easily with tombstone although he isn't strong at it. Although he isn't a true initiator( he lacks a stun and positioning spell) he is godly at teamfights. His ulti has damage amplicfication among other things, tombstone zombies do a good amount of damage and create a slow effect, and decay gives him alot of stregnth. Undying is more of a small pusher as he cant take towers quickly but can clear creep waves.
I'm quite sorry, but I lack knowledge/ the sense of Undying. How is he a pusher? Is he more like a Tinker pusher with tombstone? Or is he a conventional pusher? His tombstone doesn't create zombies on a tower. Also, there's no real explanation of teamfights in your guide, I'm so confused. I've never been good at Undying, but I love initiators, and I would like to get good at all of them excluding Axe, Meepo, and Kunkka, as I hate each and every one of those 3 with a deep and fueled passion. :P As someone who sucks at Dirge, I'd like a bit more in depth explanation. Please finish your teamfight section in your guides before making anymore please. As a suggestion, Troll Warlord -> janitor early game, right click late game. No +1 until then. :(
Very nice guide, yet i would like to know more about his tombstone ability and how to use it correctly.
You place it down if any of these are happening:
Teamfight
Enemy is pushing towers
You're pushing towers (and enemy heroes show up)
You and your carry are getting ganked
Anyway, kudos for a very intuitive guide and playstyle.
Interesting that the support build is very well skilled; I've rarely seen an Undying lane support pulled off well as either they're too aggressive or they pop premature Tombstones in the hopes that the carry can secure the kill.
Unless you're laning with, say, Chaos Knight, your ganking power will be lacklustre until mid-late; personally I'd rather skip the Urn and go straight for , , , as you will hardly get many charges in game. Best to let the dedicated ganker get the urn, if necessary.
Tried a few lobby games with pals as well, apparently Rod of Atos is an excellent item if you're dedicated to ganking. The bonus HP and Intelligence buff his capability to cast and tank, and the slow does wonders when combined with Tombstone.
It's fairly cheap to make as well. In teamfights, simply slow the carry and watch as your zombies make short work of him.
As for Vlads... I'd personally go for HotD instead. Armor would help quite a fair bit, and the ability to stack neutrals is critical for letting your carry or jungler farm. On a more practical level, in teamfights a Centaur, Ursa or Alpha Wolf can greatly boost the effectiveness of Tombstone.
Oh, and one additional unit for Soul Rip is always handy.
Downside to this is that you need other items to supplement your mana regen; a good alternative would be Eul's. Increased movespeed, mana regen, and the capability to turn a teamfight into a 4v5... What's not to love?
TL;DR, excellent guide, but as with all your guides, I'm just waiting for the Team Fighting to be updated. XD
Thanks for the vote and the feedback. In future comments, don't put a TL;DR, if an author doesn't have time to read feedback then in my book they're a jackass.
I just woke up so I'll keep it simple so I'm not just chewing on my brain; In order of the builds, Vlads is picked up as a situational for team utility since you opt out of a Mek or a Pipe, and you can pick it up because you're melee and it'll benefit your Tombstone zombies quite a bit in damage, its also a route to build from your early Basilius. Dirge does not benefit from lifesteal or attack damage because he shouldn't be auto-attacking, in the event that ancients need to be stacked either the carry should get the HotD or a ranged support should stack them when available.
Atos is in the Mana Orientated build under luxuries and should be pretty easy to acquire since your core is only Arcane boots and a choice under the options, I agree that its a good item, its also a very underrated item. Then finally the support build, Urn should actually be under situational, most the time you won't have a dedicated roamer or someone who will rush an Urn, you'll get the occasional Enchantresses or Mid Huskars, but beyond that, the roaming scene died down quite a bit. Dirge pulls it off quite well because he's either in a very aggressive lane or a very defensive lane, very rarely do I actually get to sit there and just harass with Decay and let the carry free farm.
I'll probably work over the item builds later today, some things are a little sloppily thought over, like the Orchid luxury, at that point you might as well just build a Scythe of Vyse for a disable. Or like in the Mana orientated, you don't need a wand and a Basilius, most the time I just rush an arcane and maybe pick up a Basilius if I'm having a hard time. Every single build should either have wards or a courier, and I need a solo suicide lane build for anti-melee pushers like Lone Druid. Regardless, thanks for the feedback, and the teamfighting section will be released when I rework all my guides.
Anyway, kudos for a very intuitive guide and playstyle.
Interesting that the support build is very well skilled; I've rarely seen an Undying lane support pulled off well as either they're too aggressive or they pop premature Tombstones in the hopes that the carry can secure the kill.
Unless you're laning with, say, Chaos Knight, your ganking power will be lacklustre until mid-late; personally I'd rather skip the Urn and go straight for , , , as you will hardly get many charges in game. Best to let the dedicated ganker get the urn, if necessary.
Tried a few lobby games with pals as well, apparently Rod of Atos is an excellent item if you're dedicated to ganking. The bonus HP and Intelligence buff his capability to cast and tank, and the slow does wonders when combined with Tombstone.
It's fairly cheap to make as well. In teamfights, simply slow the carry and watch as your zombies make short work of him.
As for Vlads... I'd personally go for HotD instead. Armor would help quite a fair bit, and the ability to stack neutrals is critical for letting your carry or jungler farm. On a more practical level, in teamfights a Centaur, Ursa or Alpha Wolf can greatly boost the effectiveness of Tombstone.
Oh, and one additional unit for Soul Rip is always handy.
Downside to this is that you need other items to supplement your mana regen; a good alternative would be Eul's. Increased movespeed, mana regen, and the capability to turn a teamfight into a 4v5... What's not to love?
TL;DR, excellent guide, but as with all your guides, I'm just waiting for the Team Fighting to be updated. XD
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Tombstone works wonders as a disable when facing off against 2 heroes and undying isn't the sort of hero to try and duel an enemy hero.He is more of a team-fight oriented hero who just doesn't die and keeps dealing damage.
Never level Soul Rip over decay and Tombstone. Decay is strongest during the early game, at level 7 solo top or hell, dual top or not in pubs, he has a 4 SEC cd on a nuke that makes him stronger, weakens and can potentially kill soft heroes, soul rip is generally not as effective until later phases when you have the mana to utilize all of your abilities, and can max level soul rip a hero with a ton of zombies around.
Tombstone shouldn't be leveled over decay, max decay means even your level 1 to batons zombies will be able to pick off heroes quickly, it's all about decay, if you're not leveling decay, you're failing to take advantage of one of the most powerful early spells in dota.
Bloodstone and HoT? awfully ambitious for a support hero, better spent on items providing more utility, with decay and more mana you won't need to steal a carries farm to be relevant. Of course if you're utterly rampaging through heroes than why not? Other than that, if you don't get that bloodstone in 15-20 min, you should leave it be.
Honestly, in most situations, Vlads is an underrated item on him, it increases damage and armor, oh yea lifesteal for those that love their melee carries.
Force staff and bkb are self explanatory, and obviously other items as needed, but not going after bloodstone, you can pretty much get bkb and force staff, and be able to transition into support items like Mekanism or Pipe if needed.
Great guide though.
He can clear creep waves easily with tombstone although he isn't strong at it. Although he isn't a true initiator( he lacks a stun and positioning spell) he is godly at teamfights. His ulti has damage amplicfication among other things, tombstone zombies do a good amount of damage and create a slow effect, and decay gives him alot of stregnth. Undying is more of a small pusher as he cant take towers quickly but can clear creep waves.
Thanks, thats why i get my face beaten in when i just run into the enemy team :). I guess hes more of a Tinker pusher then. Also, positioning spells and stuns don't make someone an initiator, look at Sand King. Sure he has a stun, but hes initiates with Epicenter. Aoe damage OR Aoe stuns makes someone a initiator.
Anyway, good guide. +1.
Very nice guide, yet i would like to know more about his tombstone ability and how to use it correctly.
You place it down if any of these are happening:
Teamfight
Enemy is pushing towers
You're pushing towers (and enemy heroes show up)
You and your carry are getting ganked
69th Vote! (Can't believe I just did that...)
Anyway, kudos for a very intuitive guide and playstyle.
Interesting that the support build is very well skilled; I've rarely seen an Undying lane support pulled off well as either they're too aggressive or they pop premature Tombstones in the hopes that the carry can secure the kill.
Unless you're laning with, say, Chaos Knight, your ganking power will be lacklustre until mid-late; personally I'd rather skip the Urn and go straight for , , , as you will hardly get many charges in game. Best to let the dedicated ganker get the urn, if necessary.
Tried a few lobby games with pals as well, apparently Rod of Atos is an excellent item if you're dedicated to ganking. The bonus HP and Intelligence buff his capability to cast and tank, and the slow does wonders when combined with Tombstone.
It's fairly cheap to make as well. In teamfights, simply slow the carry and watch as your zombies make short work of him.
As for Vlads... I'd personally go for HotD instead. Armor would help quite a fair bit, and the ability to stack neutrals is critical for letting your carry or jungler farm. On a more practical level, in teamfights a Centaur, Ursa or Alpha Wolf can greatly boost the effectiveness of Tombstone.
Oh, and one additional unit for Soul Rip is always handy.
Downside to this is that you need other items to supplement your mana regen; a good alternative would be Eul's. Increased movespeed, mana regen, and the capability to turn a teamfight into a 4v5... What's not to love?
TL;DR, excellent guide, but as with all your guides, I'm just waiting for the Team Fighting to be updated. XD
Thanks for the vote and the feedback. In future comments, don't put a TL;DR, if an author doesn't have time to read feedback then in my book they're a jackass.
I just woke up so I'll keep it simple so I'm not just chewing on my brain; In order of the builds, Vlads is picked up as a situational for team utility since you opt out of a Mek or a Pipe, and you can pick it up because you're melee and it'll benefit your Tombstone zombies quite a bit in damage, its also a route to build from your early Basilius. Dirge does not benefit from lifesteal or attack damage because he shouldn't be auto-attacking, in the event that ancients need to be stacked either the carry should get the HotD or a ranged support should stack them when available.
Atos is in the Mana Orientated build under luxuries and should be pretty easy to acquire since your core is only Arcane boots and a choice under the options, I agree that its a good item, its also a very underrated item. Then finally the support build, Urn should actually be under situational, most the time you won't have a dedicated roamer or someone who will rush an Urn, you'll get the occasional Enchantresses or Mid Huskars, but beyond that, the roaming scene died down quite a bit. Dirge pulls it off quite well because he's either in a very aggressive lane or a very defensive lane, very rarely do I actually get to sit there and just harass with Decay and let the carry free farm.
I'll probably work over the item builds later today, some things are a little sloppily thought over, like the Orchid luxury, at that point you might as well just build a Scythe of Vyse for a disable. Or like in the Mana orientated, you don't need a wand and a Basilius, most the time I just rush an arcane and maybe pick up a Basilius if I'm having a hard time. Every single build should either have wards or a courier, and I need a solo suicide lane build for anti-melee pushers like Lone Druid. Regardless, thanks for the feedback, and the teamfighting section will be released when I rework all my guides.
Anyway, kudos for a very intuitive guide and playstyle.
Interesting that the support build is very well skilled; I've rarely seen an Undying lane support pulled off well as either they're too aggressive or they pop premature Tombstones in the hopes that the carry can secure the kill.
Unless you're laning with, say, Chaos Knight, your ganking power will be lacklustre until mid-late; personally I'd rather skip the Urn and go straight for , , , as you will hardly get many charges in game. Best to let the dedicated ganker get the urn, if necessary.
Tried a few lobby games with pals as well, apparently Rod of Atos is an excellent item if you're dedicated to ganking. The bonus HP and Intelligence buff his capability to cast and tank, and the slow does wonders when combined with Tombstone.
It's fairly cheap to make as well. In teamfights, simply slow the carry and watch as your zombies make short work of him.
As for Vlads... I'd personally go for HotD instead. Armor would help quite a fair bit, and the ability to stack neutrals is critical for letting your carry or jungler farm. On a more practical level, in teamfights a Centaur, Ursa or Alpha Wolf can greatly boost the effectiveness of Tombstone.
Oh, and one additional unit for Soul Rip is always handy.
Downside to this is that you need other items to supplement your mana regen; a good alternative would be Eul's. Increased movespeed, mana regen, and the capability to turn a teamfight into a 4v5... What's not to love?
TL;DR, excellent guide, but as with all your guides, I'm just waiting for the Team Fighting to be updated. XD