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Hey just wanted to let you know I think we've updated the way the skill sequence works since you last updated. Now you can select the skill you pick talents at, and you also have to mark your ult point at lvl 18. :)
Hello thanks for very good guide. I don't play ranked games and have only 2k MMR. I have very good experience with build RoA > Phase Boots > HoD >S&Y > Silver edge > BKB > MKB/Deadlus(sell RoA)
Every game I max first E after this Q.
What is your opinion on build RoA > Phase > HoD > Silver Edge > Skadi (disseamble Silver Edge) > Silver Edge > BKB > MKB/Deadlus (sell RoA)?
Try goin 4-4-1-1.
Max bash is good and a simple 1 point in fervor lets you go upto 0.6 second/attack. And battle trance is a good way to develop stacks.
The added move speed lets you move about faster, which helps you gain distance once you throw whirling axes.
Honestly, Doto is such a flexible game that whatever Troll Warlord skill build picks doesn't matter in the long run. Many kind of his build brings similar DPS. All three skills bring many kinds of utility, how you play and your teammate heroes is the deciding factor.
What he needs to do essentially is to go online quick like many carries these days. Hence the most important in the end is how the item progression goes.
such is the power of 9k MMR. Dem power farming with a team that stacks camps and a hero that syncs well with Troll, Magnus. A carry's dream in pubs.
I have never thought to disassemble Dragon Lance to Sange and Yasha or else I whould have put it here, but then again, this is 9k guy we are talking about. I'll probably do some adjustment in the future, after some testing.
About skill build... hmm... have to try that, when team has compatible heroes.
So I have done some calculations and my conclusion now is that maxing Fervor is really the way to go. I checked dps and attacks per second from troll with 1 level in fervor and 4. I took a level 7 troll with one level in Berserker's Rage and axes and one in ult. I calculated without the ultimate active, so he gain even more dps with the ult. For items I just gave troll the standard Phase Boots with a Ring of Aquila and a Helm of the Dominator. Troll has his Berserker's Rage on melee! the dps isn't rounded on significant numbers
Sweet guide . Tried this build in a few games and found it effective . Maxing ferver first helps a lot in farming jungle very fast , but at this point troll is still very vulnerable to ganks.
definitely a +1
He is vulnerable to ganks in early game like most carries, that has never changed from previous patches. His lack of innate escape ability will never let him able to escape from ganks. Even maxed Berserker's Rage and Phase Boots is a mediocre escape at best (but better than none).
Play like other agility carry, let your teammates be meat shield for you, haha.
On another note, this is another reason to max Fervor so he can farm jungle on the other side of gank hunts and to use the space created from your team to take unguarded towers fast.
I have read the majority of the guide and I can find myself with a lot you tell. However I'm not really sold on the skillbuild. I understand why you max Fervor and it isn't bad at all but I think that maxing the whirling axes is beter for Troll Warlord. Now you are focussing on your rightclicks really early, and you have Fervor maxed at level 7, but if you get ganked once you aren't really going to fight them long enough to actually get use out of your attackspeed. I mean you are just going to get killed before you reach your full attackspeed capacity. That's why I sill like maxing the axes, because it is a reliable 225 damage, with an increased miss change duration, or an increased slow duration. While one level in Fervor early already increases your dps a lot.
I'm more likely for troll to max axes, than Berserker's Rage and than Fervor, while having already one Fervor level at level 3. This way you can escape beter from ganks, fight better in early fights while still doing good damage on towers because you have your ult and one Fervor level.
Dragon Lance is a really good option but I suggest still getting a s&y if you are not against a 5 men deathball strat, so it is safe to farm it.
I'm really glad you have added Brewmaster by the enemies, he really is a pane in the *** for troll, and many more rightclick carries honestly.
Buying Sange and Yasha will need you to spend 30 minutes just to farm for it with Quelling Blade and Helm of the Dominator. DL will cut you down to 19:00 minutes, and that's after having a bad lane against Undying and Witch Doctor lane combo and my partner feeds first blood (and leech exp at that) to them.
OH and death ball strat is not very good these days, not when the comeback gold will bite your team's ***es if you fail just once. Having carry that can farm fast and goes online quick is far preferable.
Besides, you should have teammates to prevent the Deathball no matter what kind of strat you go, unless you are in a team full of newbies and filled with carries, then you are, in a crude way, already lose from the start.
Since you are carry, you need and should have space to farm no matter what, only that you should use that space as little as possible in this current meta. If you cannot farm even after dodging many gank attempts and your team doesn't take any objective while you create space, it's your team's fault.
Like other carries, You should find yourself out of ganks way, This is the one of the line that divides a bad carry from being a good carry. Even without wards protecting you, you should be always aware of the map. 3 to 4 enemy heroes missing or the one who is most dangerous is missing? Farm closer to your base and towers so your team can quickly cover for you if they do indeed come to gank.
Unfortunately, reading where enemies are going is a skill only for people who has playing Dota 2 for a long time, and only experience will let newbies know.
About your skill build... is your choice I suppose, there is merit in leveling that Whirling Axes, manfighting them with AoE 300 magical damage nuke (combination of Ranged and Melee).
Although I have my own opinion, most people already running away when they see spinning axes around you, and that makes bashing them harder. But I find my Troll deal way more damage with maxed Fervor, Phase Boots, level 1 Battle Trance, Helm of the Dominator in the same second than maxed Whirling Axes does. Dragon Lance is the item that prevents you to get blown up in 1 second by one or 2 nukes and getting full stacks of Fervor is never the intention, it's the stacks attack speed bonus per stack. Another reason, Maxing Fervor also makes you get faster stacks.
Besides, Whirling Axes (Melee) has a range that sucks balls. You are most likely already kited to death before able to cast it (Experiencing it myself so many times).
Although It is not bad, maybe when you are covered by Infused Raindrops it will become viable. Needs testing however.
you are assuming every game will be a pubstomp or you have teammates do stacking (maybe I should state this is for pubs), or even enemies let farm you freely. I am trying to be realistic here, sorry.
If you get a good game in throughout, by 13:00 minutes you will have your cores finished. By 20:00 5k gold item is already done and probably already halfway to finish BKB but i am unfortunately never feel that stomping power.
Or perhaps muh skill cap doesn't reach yours (A pub player here, sorry!).
The third one seems to be case.
Sorry if this seems condescending. I am trying to make this viable to less skilled players.
Nice guide mate! We were just recently discussing Troll and how legit he is now in Discord. +1 on your guide for amazing presentation, clear and interesting content. I have nothing to add since I do not play the hero, but I hope other people offer you more insights, you deserve it.
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Every game I max first E after this Q.
What is your opinion on build RoA > Phase > HoD > Silver Edge > Skadi (disseamble Silver Edge) > Silver Edge > BKB > MKB/Deadlus (sell RoA)?
Max bash is good and a simple 1 point in fervor lets you go upto 0.6 second/attack. And battle trance is a good way to develop stacks.
The added move speed lets you move about faster, which helps you gain distance once you throw whirling axes.
Tell me about it, once you try it
What he needs to do essentially is to go online quick like many carries these days. Hence the most important in the end is how the item progression goes.
such is the power of 9k MMR. Dem power farming with a team that stacks camps and a hero that syncs well with Troll, Magnus. A carry's dream in pubs.
I have never thought to disassemble Dragon Lance to Sange and Yasha or else I whould have put it here, but then again, this is 9k guy we are talking about. I'll probably do some adjustment in the future, after some testing.
About skill build... hmm... have to try that, when team has compatible heroes.
Thanks for the video, an eye opening.
the dps isn't rounded on significant numbers
1 level in fervor:
0 stacks: dps= 123, a/s= 0.98
So if I had rounded properly you can say that every stack increases the dps with 12-13 and the a/s with 0.11 stack: dps= 136, a/s= 1.08
2 stacks: dps= 148, a/s= 1.18
3 stacks: dps= 161 a/s= 1.28
4 stacks: dps= 173 a/s= 1.38
5 stacks: dps= 186 a/s= 1.48
6 stacks: dps= 199 a/s= 1.58
7 stacks: dps= 211 a/s= 1.68
This are the results of maxed Fervor
0 stacks: dps= 123, a/s= 0.98
3 Stacks of maxed Fervor already gives the amount of 6 stacks of 1 level Fervor. The maxed Fervor clearly has the upperhand in the dps. To compare, I also calculated the dps of a Terrorblade in maxed Metamorphosis. A level 7 Terrorblade with the 1-1-4-ult build, with no illusions active, has 277 dps. As items I gave the Terrorblade: Power Treads (on agi), Ring of Aquila and a Yasha.1 stack: dps= 148, a/s= 1.18
2 stacks: dps= 173, a/s= 1.38
3 stacks: dps= 199, a/s= 1.58
4 stacks: dps= 224, a/s= 1.78
5 stacks: dps= 249, a/s= 1.98
6 stacks: dps= 274, a/s= 2.18
7 stacks: dps= 299, a/s= 2.38
Conclusion, maxing Fervor really is the way to go, ty for enlightening me :)
You need maxed beraerjers rage to manfight. You need that 2 secind stun to dole out your dps. And you won't be getting that with fervor.
Nevertheless, i can see the gain with fervor, so if your team has lockdown you can go for it
Thanks for clarifying up. I always feel maxing Fervor is good, nice to see the math behind me supports my feelings.
definitely a +1
Play like other agility carry, let your teammates be meat shield for you, haha.
On another note, this is another reason to max Fervor so he can farm jungle on the other side of gank hunts and to use the space created from your team to take unguarded towers fast.
Thanks for the feedback.
I'm more likely for troll to max axes, than Berserker's Rage and than Fervor, while having already one Fervor level at level 3. This way you can escape beter from ganks, fight better in early fights while still doing good damage on towers because you have your ult and one Fervor level.
Dragon Lance is a really good option but I suggest still getting a s&y if you are not against a 5 men deathball strat, so it is safe to farm it.
I'm really glad you have added Brewmaster by the enemies, he really is a pane in the *** for troll, and many more rightclick carries honestly.
Good guide +1, and stay bashing!
OH and death ball strat is not very good these days, not when the comeback gold will bite your team's ***es if you fail just once. Having carry that can farm fast and goes online quick is far preferable.
Besides, you should have teammates to prevent the Deathball no matter what kind of strat you go, unless you are in a team full of newbies and filled with carries, then you are, in a crude way, already lose from the start.
Since you are carry, you need and should have space to farm no matter what, only that you should use that space as little as possible in this current meta. If you cannot farm even after dodging many gank attempts and your team doesn't take any objective while you create space, it's your team's fault.
Like other carries, You should find yourself out of ganks way, This is the one of the line that divides a bad carry from being a good carry. Even without wards protecting you, you should be always aware of the map. 3 to 4 enemy heroes missing or the one who is most dangerous is missing? Farm closer to your base and towers so your team can quickly cover for you if they do indeed come to gank.
Unfortunately, reading where enemies are going is a skill only for people who has playing Dota 2 for a long time, and only experience will let newbies know.
About your skill build... is your choice I suppose, there is merit in leveling that Whirling Axes, manfighting them with AoE 300 magical damage nuke (combination of Ranged and Melee).
Although I have my own opinion, most people already running away when they see spinning axes around you, and that makes bashing them harder. But I find my Troll deal way more damage with maxed Fervor, Phase Boots, level 1 Battle Trance, Helm of the Dominator in the same second than maxed Whirling Axes does. Dragon Lance is the item that prevents you to get blown up in 1 second by one or 2 nukes and getting full stacks of Fervor is never the intention, it's the stacks attack speed bonus per stack. Another reason, Maxing Fervor also makes you get faster stacks.
Besides, Whirling Axes (Melee) has a range that sucks balls. You are most likely already kited to death before able to cast it (Experiencing it myself so many times).
Although It is not bad, maybe when you are covered by Infused Raindrops it will become viable. Needs testing however.
Thanks for the input.
If you get a good game in throughout, by 13:00 minutes you will have your cores finished. By 20:00 5k gold item is already done and probably already halfway to finish BKB but i am unfortunately never feel that stomping power.
Or perhaps muh skill cap doesn't reach yours (A pub player here, sorry!).
The third one seems to be case.
Sorry if this seems condescending. I am trying to make this viable to less skilled players.