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FoC - Finals. Voting.

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Forum » Hero & Item Ideas » FoC - Finals. Voting. 6 posts - page 1 of 1
Permalink | Quote | PM | +Rep by Smuggels » September 7, 2016 12:28pm | Report
Here are the votes for the finals by each judge.

Smuggs votes


ChiChi votes


threadoffates

I WILL DESTROY YOU ALL.... WITH FLUFFY BUNNIES


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Permalink | Quote | PM | +Rep by ThreadOfFate » September 7, 2016 1:35pm | Report
You know, I feel after reading all of this and looking back that...I really didn't do any of their ideas enough justice with my reviews. Especially in the beauty department. Calling Sando's layout average? Ugh... What was I thinking? If enough complaints come through that I was unfair, feel free to disregard my votes.

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Permalink | Quote | PM | +Rep by Sando » September 8, 2016 11:03am | Report
First of all well done Unscathed, congrats on the win.

I've done a poor job explaining the hero shape cos I'm not sure any of the judges "got it" as such. The idea was always for a support hero - he has no scaling (aside from being agi with reasonable gain) and no damage steroid.

The primary point was that he gets farm WITHOUT taking anything from his team. Enemy gold is stolen all the way, denied creeps all the way up to his ult. So he can afford utility/support items without "his team" really having to pay for them. It's all about the economics of denying the enemy team of gold, and the gold they do spend not being as effective (as actives won't work sometimes).

And you'll probably have enough left over to buy yourself something shiny. So a support, but not a poor one, and takes from the other team rather than his own.

Anyway, WP all, I enjoyed writing anyway.
A full list of my guides is here

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Permalink | Quote | PM | +Rep by ChiChi » September 8, 2016 12:52pm | Report
Sando wrote:

First of all well done Unscathed, congrats on the win.

I've done a poor job explaining the hero shape cos I'm not sure any of the judges "got it" as such. The idea was always for a support hero - he has no scaling (aside from being agi with reasonable gain) and no damage steroid.

The primary point was that he gets farm WITHOUT taking anything from his team. Enemy gold is stolen all the way, denied creeps all the way up to his ult. So he can afford utility/support items without "his team" really having to pay for them. It's all about the economics of denying the enemy team of gold, and the gold they do spend not being as effective (as actives won't work sometimes).

And you'll probably have enough left over to buy yourself something shiny. So a support, but not a poor one, and takes from the other team rather than his own.

Anyway, WP all, I enjoyed writing anyway.


Sando, I did address that point, because you said it in the hero explanation yourself.

"So if you can’t be a good core, are you a good support/space creator? Well as a support, you’re very meh again: you have two useful skills and two more or less useless ones (cause they give you money that you can’t allocate in amazing places since supporting). Why not play a Bounty Hunter instead, for instance?"

Basically if you had better skills for a support that can do with some gold, that would make sense; problem is the skills and hero don't sinergyze for that in the sense that if I compare it to other heroes in the game I will always prefer the utility coming out from some other hero. Getting gold on a support isn't a decisive factor most of the time - to get him there maybe you should tweak his skills for them to be worth it picking Harefoot over someone else?

Credits to Janitsu!

Ammateurs coaching channel iei! https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCOBsWN_45WjrRXLAWUqeyaA

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Permalink | Quote | PM | +Rep by Sando » September 8, 2016 1:39pm | Report
ChiChi wrote:

Sando, I did address that point, because you said it in the hero explanation yourself.

"So if you can’t be a good core, are you a good support/space creator? Well as a support, you’re very meh again: you have two useful skills and two more or less useless ones (cause they give you money that you can’t allocate in amazing places since supporting). Why not play a Bounty Hunter instead, for instance?"

Basically if you had better skills for a support that can do with some gold, that would make sense; problem is the skills and hero don't sinergyze for that in the sense that if I compare it to other heroes in the game I will always prefer the utility coming out from some other hero. Getting gold on a support isn't a decisive factor most of the time - to get him there maybe you should tweak his skills for them to be worth it picking Harefoot over someone else?


To answer your point - you pick him over Bounty Hunter because you don't have a particularly ganky team, and the enemy have a fast farming core who's going to be difficult for you to deal with. With Harefoot, you don't NEED to kill him necessarily. If they're loaded up with defensive supports, running a 4 protect 1... you don't care as long as you can land your ult. You can severely damage his farm ...with the added bonus of funding items for yourself.

You'd probably run him as a roaming support - Arcane Bomb has good kill assist potential, Sabotage could be horrible for the enemy mid (and others). I think he could be pretty horrible to play against. A greatly under-estimated part of support play is not just boosting your own team, but damaging the farm and momentum of the opposition.

I completely agree with you on the lack of 'damaging' synergy - it's intentional to avoid making him OP. If you could farm him as a useful core, or even with a highly damaging nuking combo, he'd be ridiculously powerful. The point is that he's a hero who can hurt you a lot, without necessarily snowballing/ganking/etc - just through clever play.

Having a support who's well stocked with supplies is still really useful - even if he lacks exact synergy with them. He can still be packing Mekansm, Arcane Boots, sheepstick, medallions, glimmers, vlads, pipe etc. Basically his use in team fights comes from the fact he'll very likely have a lot more gold than your average support, so he simply buys what your team needs - at the cost of the opposition ideally :).

KOTL would be another good example of a hero who's severely lacking in damage - has a very unreliable stun, is pretty much pure utility. It doesn't make him a bad hero, just one that suits a certain playstyle and requires the rest of the team to make up for those weaknesses.

Not saying the hero design couldn't be improved or doesn't need work, I was just a bit frustrated that it felt like you guys misunderstood the choices and the thinking behind them.
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Permalink | Quote | PM | +Rep by ChiChi » September 8, 2016 2:38pm | Report
With all you said, I still see the hero not fitting any lane nor getting anything done easily (you said you can roam him but level one he doesn't have enough kill potential, so he needs to sap somewhere, and after he's also just an agility hero that needs to walk up close to actually use his spells). And as much as disrupting the enemy and hindering his farm is good - and I like the originality of your idea behind it, I think everyone did - that will not be enough because you are not doing something to get your team ahead/actually great space. And I do not think your hero, as he is now, can do that for his team, when compared to other heroes in the game (even if you manage to make him survive and stock in utility items - point you never addressed yourself). You said Kotl yourself as another example, and I would still prefer him, for instance, as a way to guarantee push and early power to a line-up that goes against a greedy core, for instance.

So you see, the thing is not that we do not understand - is that we do not agree :)

Still no frustration needed for a job very well done.

Credits to Janitsu!

Ammateurs coaching channel iei! https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCOBsWN_45WjrRXLAWUqeyaA

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