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i gave you 14 points for your complete and structural build of his abilties and costing. it sits well within the framework of most other heroes. i gave 1 extra point for his omen of death which i feel is a superbly created skill (if it didnt have the mana thing was just a costs life and mana to use) i took 6 points off because the system he uses (mana creation) basically makes his itemisation useless, the coding weird, and the way to play him out of snyc with the dota framework.
CREATIVITY
11/15 POINTS
q seems like dagger, w is perfection, his passives are well done but have hints of past work. i honestly gave most of your point for his omen which i think could be awesome in game.
BEAUTY
5/5 POINTS
beautifully formatted
PERSONAL
4/5 POINTS
could be a great hero just doesnt feel right with your complete throwaway of one of the tenents of the dota framework.
Sando- harefoot, the Scoundrel
PRACTICALITY
8/15 POINTS
i know this seems harsh but ill try and explain. he is too powerful and game breaking to be in this game. icefrog balances the game around the pro scene. its how he has always done things. this hero would break the how we play doto on ALL levels and he cant be balanced. he will allways be either too powerful or too weak i cant see a middle ground.
CREATIVITY
14/15 POINTS
this is just really really just.... wow i only took one point off for his w with it being very generic, but everything else. wow. so far left i didnt even think of these before. superb.
BEAUTY
5/5 POINTS
beautifully formatted
PERSONAL
3/5 POINTS
though i love the concept it is too passive for me and feels over powered and underpowered at the same time
Yzreel - Hwarin the Swordsmaster
PRACTICALITY
9/15 POINTS
again im going with 9 out of 15. i feel like she would be easily used and implemented but at the same time im having trouble seeing where she would FIT into the dota scene. i can see her being a pubstar with high skill players just sweeping through everyone but at the same time she more fits in with SMITE then dota imo. though beautiful i gave 5 points for cohesive skills and hero creation and 4 points for good costing and hero allotment. As much as i love the hero it just wouldnt be pratical in the game.
CREATIVITY
12/15 POINTS
i have seen something similar before but as always yzreel its incredibly well thought out and perfect in its own way.
BEAUTY
5/5 POINTS
beautifully formatted
PERSONAL
5/5 POINTS
i cant help imagining her in the game in the hands of miracle just carving through everyone and everything in beautiful arcs and florishes. i love it.
UNSCATHED - pocket sand
PRACTICALITY
15/15 POINTS
its simple. effective. it would be in the game. its costing is fine. its duration is perfect. its uses are spot on. its charges are right. its reductions is on point. its perfect.
CREATIVITY
14/15 POINTS
i dont know how you thought of this but... its near on perfect. if short or sweet. its. wow.
BEAUTY
4/5 POINTS
could be better but close enough.
PERSONAL
5/5 POINTS
you know they say the best ideas are ones that come to you under the stress of other things. this is one of them. its so simple it hurts yet it works better then anything else. as much as i love a complicated hero something that reallly takes some brain work, this is like 3 brush art. simple. clear. concise.
ChiChi votes
My way of looking at the score btw, just for reference: 3 out of 5/8 out of 15 would be like “sufficient”, 4/around 12 would be “good” and 5/14 or 15 “very good”. Everything under 3 or 8 means I think it failed that category.
Practicality: 8/15
Although in paper you have 4 interesting actives on this hero, and you do explain where you think he could fit, I think he would be completely irrelevant in the game and not worth over some other hero pick. The reason why this is: you have two “greed” abilities, which similarly to Alchemist would allow you to get some good degree of farm. Problem: what do you do with that farm? You just wasted two abilities on that, so he’s left with two others: a AoE disable with some damage and the sabotage/disrupt skill. Well while the disable would sound nice for a core to somehow allow you to survive, that won’t work cause you need to launch it into the right location and if you’re jumped, you probably won’t be able to escape with it. Is the disable good for team fighting then, that’s where your money is going? Nah, it’s a pretty meh skill for a late game rich melee agility hero, that needs to go into their faces and smack them – because despite all the extra money you’re getting, you will still need to get items that allow you to deal actual damage in team fights and survive them, two things your skill set doesn’t help you with at all. Invisibility also meh here, a bit out of character and strange to his skill set/not useful if you’re not the one in the driving seat (ganking). Compare this to Alchemist: won’t you rather have a hero that also has greed but that has on top of that reliable team fight/steroid ability (his ultimate) besides a disable and another good AoE spell? If you play Harefoot as a core, you will need to be super protected and farm until you get some kind of core items with mobility/damage/survivability/AS that allows you to be useful – and how many items does that mean right? So 34 minutes later, at best, you emerge ready, just to find out the game is already lost or that another greed core still has more than you.
So if you can’t be a good core, are you a good support/space creator? Well as a support, you’re very meh again: you have two useful skills and two more or less useless ones (cause they give you money that you can’t allocate in amazing places since supporting). Why not play a Bounty Hunter instead, for instance? I think you see my point here.
Now space creator/offlaner: you do have Sabotage, my favourite skill on your hero, and it’s the perfect space creator ability, for a hero that can be played as a #3/#4, getting enough equipment to get near to their faces to do it and go away after. You also have Arcane Bomb that sounds good for that, and you could use the greed abilities for getting the farm needed (especially the deny one). But like you said yourself: “his escape is quite weak and he's squishy”. So this won’t work either if you have a bad offlane, and you can’t really roam that well. Which leaves us with a gimmicky hero that fits nowhere because his abilities, albeit interesting, do not synergize enough with each other. Look at Underlord as an example here: his Firestorm exists in part to complement his Pit of Malice and the other way around, while at the same time he has an aura that helps the team by disrupting the enemy/makes him a space creator and an ulti that also synergizes with the AoE from the rest of the spells while being team orientated.
My advice would be: To make Harefoot viable, something in the lines of nudging in the direction of this kind of offlaner role where he would be most interesting. Example: Keep Rogue a passive without the invis part and keeping the numbers (they seem good) but give him an ulti that does something different or serves the entire team, while changing Arcane Bomb to make him more survivable, such as instant casting on an AoE around you (numbers on this one seem fine to me as well). Just random ideas trying to keep what I think you have best on this hero.
So in synthesis: I don’t think it’s a practical hero that could fit a line-up right now, but its abilities do seem to be tweaked right, hence the final points conclusion. I will award the other aspects like work put in and concept elsewhere. Sorry for the huge explanation but I think it’s best if I justify this well, you guys deserve it
Creativity: 13/15
Very creative idea! Some parts of it obviously are reminiscent of some stuff already existent in the game dealing with gold and invisibility ( Alchemist and Bounty Hunter), but apart from that the idea of a hero that exists literally to annoy the enemy team is interesting, and especially the sabotage skill concept – that one I found very original. So this punctuation seems fair.
Beauty: 5/5
There’s no doubt for me here that you deserve full points: it’s gorgeously formatted, has a hero image and even ability icons, well done.
Personal: 4/5
I have to say Sabotage got me by the balls, because it’s original and sounds like a super fun/feasible Dota spell that I would like to see in-game. I don’t, however, like the rest of the hero idea, cause of the practically aspect I explained above (skillset doesn’t synergize in itself, hero seems fairly useless), and some minor stuff (like the invis attached to his passive for no reason). That said, it’s a fairly complex idea that gave you a lot of work, which I somehow would like to reward here too. So this is why you have this final punctuation here.
Final score: 30/40
Note: I didn’t read the comments in the thread where you posted your idea tbh, on purpose to not be influenced by them. So this is purely my own idea on the idea presented.
________________________________________________________________________
Practicality: 10/15
First reaction: Is this not in game already? Why not? Now seriously: while the idea seems very natural to the game, going in line with most stuff already existing but in a refreshing way, I had to compare the numbers to some stuff already existent for comparison. So: item numbers seem all pretty fair, not OP and still worth of a consumable, except the stock/price. In the early game, you can abuse this IMO because for no money at all you can have 2 each 2 minutes, and since the effects of it are so strong it’s like saying no one will die in a gank while the supports can carry this. Not because of the miss chance, that I think is good (same as the uphill) but cause of the vision reduction (85% man! Woooh).
In synthesis: Seems completely practical too me, fits Dota as a glove, it’s a consumable that you can see being bought by very different heroes in the game and being useful while not being OP. However, to make sure about the not OP part, I think you should tweak some numbers somewhere – it either needs to be more expensive to make up for the fact that there are 2 available each 2 minutes, or you need to make the restock time longer (I think it would still be a worthy item if you did like a 5 min restock time, for instance). Hopefully punctuation here reflects this!
Creativity: 15/15
No way I can stop myself from giving you a full punctuation here. How did you come up with something so good in such a short time, according to yourself! ahah There’s nothing quite like this in the game, and yet it sounds just like something that could be there. Not another hero idea or complex item with passive and active, a consumable! So yea, good job, here have many points.
Beauty: 5/5
Simple yet pretty and complete: it’s an item, has the icon, the description little icons, everything. Impeccable.
Personal: 5/5
Personally, I love this, which leaked before judging time even, for which I’m sorry (I thought I wasn’t a judge anymore). It just sounds so normal, like a Dota consumable that could already be easily in the game. Also love the fact that it is a simple, effective idea, that seems equilibrated to me and that is a consumable/cheap item, which is more original than the typical complex hero/active items ideas that I see all the time. Smart one, congrats!
Final score: 35/40
________________________________________________________________________
Practicality: 7/15
At first glance the problem here immediately became apparent, and further rereading confirmed it: you did a hero that has 0 innate mana so he needs to win it to be able to use his spells, but the only spells you gave him that grant him mana are Nightblade - which only grants 12 mana and has a 4 second cooldown – and Omen of Death – that despite giving 4 mana per attack costs 35 mana to activate itself. What the hell mate, how are you supposed to ever have enough mana to do anything, let alone do combos and be useful? First time you go into their face to try to get mana you either kill them and replenish this bit or you just die, over and over again, and can never cast anything. Cause notice this: you start with 0 mana, so you have to use Nightblade 3 times just to be able to collect enough mana to actually cast, once, Omen of Death, or 4 times to cast his ultimate once. If you want to do the combo, you need to cast Nightblade 7 times! So what are you doing in between, when you are not jumping heroes to get mana? Cause you need to survive and to farm, to actually get items to carry the game. And you need to keep jumping people to get mana or you will never cast anything. Or does he have a passive mana regen from his Intelligence/items? You didn’t explain this well, and even in the case where mana regen works as it would normally we’re still talking about a hero that can only use his 2 spells once and then one second of ultimate, this in a perfect situation starting with full mana pool. So to use the ultimate adequately he would need an incredible amount of constant mana regen, and he can’t use the other skills. Not to mention if you wanted to ever play this hero successfully you would have to ban all types of mana burns in the game to make sure he wasn’t truly worthless, which you can’t really do…
Long story short: it’s gimmicky and unpractical in my opinion. Won’t work as a hard carry, which is the only role that would make sense with his stats and abilities. And this without entering too much into the fact that he is all about being hyper aggressive without any farming/survivability booster. I can’t also see any synergy between his skills that would make him worth, after reading your entry over and over again I just see a feeding machine for the enemy that would maybe work in 1K jumping into people non-stop
The idea behind it is interesting, so I will reward that in the other category!
Creativity: 12/15
I think your idea of not having mana at all to start with and having a mana pool cap is very original, and there isn’t anything like this in the game. It’s probably the most original you could get with mana usages in game now, since everything else that drains mana and converts it into damage kinda exists already. His concept and abilities, however, are not per se the most original ones, for a core hero that is all about dealing a weird mix of different damage types with bonus from agility. So I tried to translate this mixed feelings I have about how creative the idea is into the punctuation here.
Beauty: 4/5
Well formatted for reading yet no skill icons, basically. I think the 1 points less, per comparison with the other entries, is fair.
Personal: 2/5
Personally I just dislike your idea, tbh, both because it doesn’t appeal to me as a hero, he’sdoesn’t strike me as much original (another Abaddon) and because I can’t stop feeling he just doesn’t make much sense/works properly. This might sound unfair as it is completely personal, but well, this is what these points are for.
Practicality: 7/15
You probably know this part of judging might sound unfair for such a complex idea where you invested much work, but please know that part was duly noted and your idea properly analysed to make sure I understood it before judging
Now on to business. We are at her very first skill, Swordsmanship, and I already smell OPness: when maxed out, she can choose to have her full damage to be inflicted in cleave or throw a sword in the distance that deals 130% of her damage, every 6 seconds for 30 mana? Hmmm. I look at the other spells (and she has a lot of those), they all cost mana, which screams spamming, which screams “you’re an Agility hero so you’re gonna have mana problems”. But hey wait, you gave her 17 + 2.2/level, which is better than most agi heroes that are sitting at around 1.5 Int per level (I checked them and just as an example, the most Intelligent Agi cores were people like Phantom Lancer and Shadow Fiend with +2, and Gyrocopter with 2.1). So you fixed her mana problems, but doesn’t that, coupled with the rest of the hero, make her too strong? Cause I haven’t even talked about the fact that, besides the “cleave” and the “dagger with extra damage” she also has a spell for blinking and disjointing that dispels the hero (weak dispels), and two others that either maim the unit or knocks it back. So we’re talking about an Agi core with great Intelligence gain that has the spells of Sven, Slark and Drow Ranger combined, just to name a few? Ay caramba. Give her a Ring of Basilius for mana, damage and Attack speed and she’s unstoppable (she has everything else in her skillset already). So I think in reality your idea is not balanced at all. Her combo ultimate is very interesting, but naturally just makes it worse, since it makes you be able to use everything in a short succession for extra spells (what, even more spells? Daaamn mate).
In short: because of her skills combined with her good stats you made an overpowered hero that is not balanced, in my opinion. To make her balanced you would have to rethink her stats and her abilities, probably granting her some sort of weaker passive (like we see with most Agi similar cores) and tweaking her abilities – she can’t be able to do everything she wants plus combo stuff to do even more. I see where you want to go with the hero – the Invoker of Agility – but then you need to make sure that, just like Injoker, she has to sacrifice stuff (if you go for the Quas you can’t get the Hex benefits and the opposite, you see the idea, your hero just has everything available for use at all times). You should also probably make her weaker in the early game + needing some more equipment to be fully efficient. Because right now like I told you, she will just take care of everyone too quickly and too painlessly - she already has mobility, a farming steroid, survivability, Intelligence, extra damage, disables. That’s giving her too much if you don’t go the Injoker way of choosing a path of sorts.
Creativity: 13/15
Your hero is creative in the fact that you have different spell combinations available for fighting/right clicking, so like you said, an Invoker for agility right clickers, which we didn’t have. At the same time, ofc the similarity with Juggernaut and in general the sword fighting already in-game could not go unnoticed. All in all, I like the beautiful sword woman idea, not sure though if it’s that original. Tried to make sure punctuation reflects both this aspects.
Beauty: 5/5
No doubt here, perfect score: very well formatted and organized for reading, pretty, with the hero image and skill icons.
Personal: 4/5
Honestly I don’t know what to think, since I’m inclined to say I wouldn’t enjoy have to perform that many decisions during the game, but! An OP swordsman with Asian lore? Something in me just say “yes please” ahah so let’s say I still likes, but I’m really bothered by the fact that I think she was made too strong.
Final score: 28/40
threadoffates
PRACTICALITY (15/15)
CREATIVITY (15/15)
BEAUTY (5/5)
PERSONAL (5/5)
SANDO: Harefoot
Practicality 5/15: I want to like this character, I really do, but as i've stated in my longish review on the post itself, it falls off super hard, doesn't provide enough to the team to be worth picking up, and generally hasn't got enough going for it unless he becomes horribly overtuned.
Creativity 13/15: Modifying the enemy's gold counter is a concept I tried to make work early on, but simply couldn't. I love the idea of sneaking around and swindling money from opposing carries.
Beauty 2.5/5: It's nicely laid out, and the icons all have the same colour scheme and fit what the skills do. Buuut it's precisely what we've come to expect, thus the 50/50-ish mark.
Personal 3/5: The concept intrigues me, and the it seems like a good idea, but I simply cannot see it working. However, I can see how the abilities would fit and work in Dota, which is more than I can say for... The next one.
YZREEL: Hwarin
Practicality 3/15: The amount of things you have to learn does not prevent the fact that the sheer amount of power she brings to the table is rediculous. It's absolutely absurd and I could never, ever, EVER picture this hero appearing in Dota. Being limited by mana is not much of an excuse when this character has 20 different ways to **** your face in such rapid succession the term I usually SCOFF at in disgust (IE: BURDEN OF KNOWLEDGE) becomes a horrid reality! It's worse than Invoker for a new player. If you died to this, you would have absolutely zero clue as to how or why you died.
Creativity 15/15: It's Yzreel. It's what he does, come on now. Can't be biased against that, regardless of my feelings on the complexity, can I?
Beauty 4/5: It's very eye catching, very well laid out, and unique. Well done.
Personal 0/5: Needless. Complexity. Does not equal. Good design. Damnit Yzreel, calm down with your designs. I get it, heroes with 20 different moves and techniques is your shtick, but come on! I could never see this hero in Dota. The amount of damaging options is rediculous for any opponent to figure out. I will stop now before I rant too much.
UNSCATCHED: Pocket Sand (AKA first impressions are ********
Practicality 13/15: Holy ****! For such a simple, apparantly rushed design, I could see myself buying this as a support as a legitimate build. This fills such an impressive niche in the game, and it's very well balanced with the duration and stock timers, also the cap of sand allowed per team. It does get countered to some extent by BKB and MKB, but it does actually scale into lategame otherwise!
Creativity 4/15: I like the idea, but...Come on, it's just sand. I hate sand. It's rough, and coarse...And it gets everywhere.
Beauty 2/5: You took an icon from WoW (I think) and rolled with it. It would be a 1, but frankly, I ****ing adore the flavour text. "MY ULTIMATE TECHNIQUE! POCKET SAAAAAAAAAND!" *Tosses sand at the creator of the planet itself*
Personal 3/5: Ok. This one gave me a good chuckle, before surprising me with how well it fits into the game and just how surprisingly viable it is. Good work, mister "Holy-****-I-remembered-the-deadline-save-me"
TERATHIEL: Malicent
Practicality 8/15: I should mention this is my overall favourite hero concept of the four. However...It's a tad broken, hence the 9. The mana usage concept is interesting...Until you hit his abilities. His Q...Is a blink strike, which GAINS him resources, on a constant four second cooldown, which can apply on hit effects. That's Pretty insane. However, it IS his only way of gaining mana, so it does need the low cooldown for him to be relevant. His W is a steroid which will trigger people who don't buy detection and who try to nuke him. Though, uhm...12 Seconds of 25% damage reduction is pretty damn good, especially as it has an invisibility element. What the **** are the next two abilities, though? If his E stacks with himself, WHAT IN THE MOTHER OF GOD IS THIS? Ok, just under half of his mana pool, I get that, except that he can blink to allies and gain 12 mana every 4 seconds so whatever man. But... 1100 damage on a 0 second cooldown? Jesus christ. Not like getting into melee range is hard, and it has NO cooldown. BKB is a MUST buy. Have fun escaping from his ult. It's pretty good, but lasts basically no time at all because you'll be too busy using his OP E.
Creativity 12/15: Good ****. The idea of a hero that has to earn his own mana through a core ability is pretty neat, but it does mean he loses value from a lot of items, as INT does nothing with him. It does need a fair bit of tuning numbers and scaling-wise, but it's pretty good and I can sort of picture how he would be played in a game. Nerf that 4 second cooldown on Q though.
Beauty 2/5: It's kinda basic in the formatting department, but is very comprehensive and easy to understand. The lack of any icons at all is a tad disheartening, however.
Personal 3/5: Not bad, Tera. Not bad at all! Aside from some tuning issues, I really do like the hero and how the mana is almost another resource entirely, not unlike the rage system from WoW, which admittedly i've been playing quite a bit as of late.
You know, I feel after reading all of this and looking back that...I really didn't do any of their ideas enough justice with my reviews. Especially in the beauty department. Calling Sando's layout average? Ugh... What was I thinking? If enough complaints come through that I was unfair, feel free to disregard my votes.
First of all well done Unscathed, congrats on the win.
I've done a poor job explaining the hero shape cos I'm not sure any of the judges "got it" as such. The idea was always for a support hero - he has no scaling (aside from being agi with reasonable gain) and no damage steroid.
The primary point was that he gets farm WITHOUT taking anything from his team. Enemy gold is stolen all the way, denied creeps all the way up to his ult. So he can afford utility/support items without "his team" really having to pay for them. It's all about the economics of denying the enemy team of gold, and the gold they do spend not being as effective (as actives won't work sometimes).
And you'll probably have enough left over to buy yourself something shiny. So a support, but not a poor one, and takes from the other team rather than his own.
First of all well done Unscathed, congrats on the win.
I've done a poor job explaining the hero shape cos I'm not sure any of the judges "got it" as such. The idea was always for a support hero - he has no scaling (aside from being agi with reasonable gain) and no damage steroid.
The primary point was that he gets farm WITHOUT taking anything from his team. Enemy gold is stolen all the way, denied creeps all the way up to his ult. So he can afford utility/support items without "his team" really having to pay for them. It's all about the economics of denying the enemy team of gold, and the gold they do spend not being as effective (as actives won't work sometimes).
And you'll probably have enough left over to buy yourself something shiny. So a support, but not a poor one, and takes from the other team rather than his own.
Anyway, WP all, I enjoyed writing anyway.
Sando, I did address that point, because you said it in the hero explanation yourself.
"So if you can’t be a good core, are you a good support/space creator? Well as a support, you’re very meh again: you have two useful skills and two more or less useless ones (cause they give you money that you can’t allocate in amazing places since supporting). Why not play a Bounty Hunter instead, for instance?"
Basically if you had better skills for a support that can do with some gold, that would make sense; problem is the skills and hero don't sinergyze for that in the sense that if I compare it to other heroes in the game I will always prefer the utility coming out from some other hero. Getting gold on a support isn't a decisive factor most of the time - to get him there maybe you should tweak his skills for them to be worth it picking Harefoot over someone else?
Sando, I did address that point, because you said it in the hero explanation yourself.
"So if you can’t be a good core, are you a good support/space creator? Well as a support, you’re very meh again: you have two useful skills and two more or less useless ones (cause they give you money that you can’t allocate in amazing places since supporting). Why not play a Bounty Hunter instead, for instance?"
Basically if you had better skills for a support that can do with some gold, that would make sense; problem is the skills and hero don't sinergyze for that in the sense that if I compare it to other heroes in the game I will always prefer the utility coming out from some other hero. Getting gold on a support isn't a decisive factor most of the time - to get him there maybe you should tweak his skills for them to be worth it picking Harefoot over someone else?
To answer your point - you pick him over Bounty Hunter because you don't have a particularly ganky team, and the enemy have a fast farming core who's going to be difficult for you to deal with. With Harefoot, you don't NEED to kill him necessarily. If they're loaded up with defensive supports, running a 4 protect 1... you don't care as long as you can land your ult. You can severely damage his farm ...with the added bonus of funding items for yourself.
You'd probably run him as a roaming support - Arcane Bomb has good kill assist potential, Sabotage could be horrible for the enemy mid (and others). I think he could be pretty horrible to play against. A greatly under-estimated part of support play is not just boosting your own team, but damaging the farm and momentum of the opposition.
I completely agree with you on the lack of 'damaging' synergy - it's intentional to avoid making him OP. If you could farm him as a useful core, or even with a highly damaging nuking combo, he'd be ridiculously powerful. The point is that he's a hero who can hurt you a lot, without necessarily snowballing/ganking/etc - just through clever play.
Having a support who's well stocked with supplies is still really useful - even if he lacks exact synergy with them. He can still be packing Mekansm, Arcane Boots, sheepstick, medallions, glimmers, vlads, pipe etc. Basically his use in team fights comes from the fact he'll very likely have a lot more gold than your average support, so he simply buys what your team needs - at the cost of the opposition ideally :).
KOTL would be another good example of a hero who's severely lacking in damage - has a very unreliable stun, is pretty much pure utility. It doesn't make him a bad hero, just one that suits a certain playstyle and requires the rest of the team to make up for those weaknesses.
Not saying the hero design couldn't be improved or doesn't need work, I was just a bit frustrated that it felt like you guys misunderstood the choices and the thinking behind them.
With all you said, I still see the hero not fitting any lane nor getting anything done easily (you said you can roam him but level one he doesn't have enough kill potential, so he needs to sap somewhere, and after he's also just an agility hero that needs to walk up close to actually use his spells). And as much as disrupting the enemy and hindering his farm is good - and I like the originality of your idea behind it, I think everyone did - that will not be enough because you are not doing something to get your team ahead/actually great space. And I do not think your hero, as he is now, can do that for his team, when compared to other heroes in the game (even if you manage to make him survive and stock in utility items - point you never addressed yourself). You said Kotl yourself as another example, and I would still prefer him, for instance, as a way to guarantee push and early power to a line-up that goes against a greedy core, for instance.
So you see, the thing is not that we do not understand - is that we do not agree :)
Still no frustration needed for a job very well done.
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