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Invoker and Aghanim?

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Forum » General Discussion » Invoker and Aghanim? 15 posts - page 1 of 2
Permalink | Quote | PM | +Rep by Sacred_Prophet » June 25, 2014 7:55am | Report
Hi guys.
I would like to know what do you think about Invoker and Aghanim?
I always thought that it is unnecessary luxury item, but i see that sometimes it gives mad results:

http://www.buildota2.com/build_view?buildId=4842855335985152

Maybe, it is really "Must be" item for Invoker?

Sacred_Prophet



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Permalink | Quote | PM | +Rep by Peppo_oPaccio » June 25, 2014 8:40am | Report
Competitive players stopped buying Agh's on Invoker since he became a valid pick again, which means after the EMP buff (probably in 6.79 but I can't remember): I personally don't buy it and prefer going for "INT carry" items like Scythe of Vyse, Black King Bar, Eye of Skadi and Shiva's Guard; I even picked up an Assault Cuirass once!

My usual build varies depending on my skill build: when playing Quas- Wex I usually go for a quick Orchid Malevolence so I can abuse the extra movement speed from Ghost Walk, while if using Quas- Exort a Midas into Necro 3 is the best build you can have; I also go straight Vyse (or Midas into Vyse for QE) a lot of times on both builds. Sometimes I pick Drum of Endurance, Force Staff and Eul's Scepter of Divinity, but I think the Agh's costs too much considering it's simply countered by a BKB. As for the post-core items, I listed them above.

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Permalink | Quote | PM | +Rep by Wulfstan » June 25, 2014 8:53am | Report
Quoted:
I personally don't buy it and prefer going for "INT carry"


You're no man if you don't go Helm of the Dominator + Daedalus Invoker at least once in your life. That's the real carry, using Alacrity all day.

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Permalink | Quote | PM | +Rep by Ab4ddon._.E43 » June 25, 2014 9:23am | Report
Absolutely core if not going for quas wex, I mean in a general fights i end up using around 6-7 spells easily.
I prefer the forge spirits build so really get aghs rights after I hit round level 12-13 by that time I have a necro 3 , boots and drums and wand.
Sometimes I go the max exort build depending on the situation and get a bkb way earlier, then i proceed towards aghs.

Some might say the 2 sec cd is not that great a buff but it really adds up in big fights.
I am the Abaddon *****!!!

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Permalink | Quote | PM | +Rep by Sacred_Prophet » June 25, 2014 11:23am | Report
Very different opinions :) Thank you for your replies.
If somebody accept this build - please, "Like" it, via sign in.

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Permalink | Quote | PM | +Rep by jawbreaker261 » June 25, 2014 11:35am | Report
I'm not a big fan of it.

Main problem for Invoker is that nothing goes through BKB. So you should be trying to win in the midgame, but at this point your limited levels in Q/W/E (doesn't matter which build) force you to pick a small set of spells that will be effective, and the rest will be comparatively weak. I always value utility items over access to a few more weak spells per fight.

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Permalink | Quote | PM | +Rep by Peppo_oPaccio » June 25, 2014 1:47pm | Report

Absolutely core if not going for quas wex, I mean in a general fights i end up using around 6-7 spells easily.
I prefer the forge spirits build so really get aghs rights after I hit round level 12-13 by that time I have a necro 3 , boots and drums and wand.
Sometimes I go the max exort build depending on the situation and get a bkb way earlier, then i proceed towards aghs.

Some might say the 2 sec cd is not that great a buff but it really adds up in big fights.

I used to get Agh's on Invoker, but I realized the biggest problem I have when playing him is not invoking spells, but finding one off cooldown in the middle of a fight: most of the time I can land my Tornado- EMP/ Chaos Meteor- Deafening Blast combo, after which I can only use Cold Snap, Ice Wall, Sun Strike and maybe Alacrity ( Ghost Walk too if I have to run away), most of which need a good opportunity to be used well. Plus, Forge Spirit should be activated before fighting, so you don't need to Invoke it a second time.

I prefer going QW though, being able to gank past level 6-7 is really strong in pubs. And I sometimes use it in team matches, too: EMP mana drain is still strong in my opinion.

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Permalink | Quote | PM | +Rep by Ab4ddon._.E43 » June 25, 2014 2:18pm | Report


I used to get Agh's on Invoker, but I realized the biggest problem I have when playing him is not invoking spells, but finding one off cooldown in the middle of a fight: most of the time I can land my Tornado- EMP/ Chaos Meteor- Deafening Blast combo, after which I can only use Cold Snap, Ice Wall, Sun Strike and maybe Alacrity ( Ghost Walk too if I have to run away), most of which need a good opportunity to be used well. Plus, Forge Spirit should be activated before fighting, so you don't need to Invoke it a second time.

I prefer going QW though, being able to gank past level 6-7 is really strong in pubs. And I sometimes use it in team matches, too: EMP mana drain is still strong in my opinion.

My general combo goes like this(not counting spirits, they are pre-summoned) , Tornado, Meteor, Dblast, EMP (then refresher if i have ,another def emp ) After this coldsnap, alacrity and SS are usefull for finishing off people, but mostly none live after this except 1 or 2 guys. I really like having the aghs for this combo as it lets me get off that emp fast enough ( As for why I emp fourth is to regain mana and not so much for damage)

As for preference, dont consider this rude but I dont really find QW at all a challenging build, its way too easy and the skill ceiling for that is pretty low, though you can do monstrous things with a right tornado, I once cancelled 2 ulties with it, real fun.

My preference is always with exort builds as they let you use other spells, while exort spells tend to rely SOLELY on exort for damage and I use the others for the debuffs. Mostly as soon as level 11 i have 10 spells to use which is much more as compared to QW( no 1 will use exort lvl 1 meteor now will they? maybe to scare someone, but only against inexperienced guys).

Though I play what fits the game, If i have a lycan or NP on my side, I go QE ; If the enemy has mana dependent heroes I do go QW, and if the enemy is all squishy and i'm feeling particularly baller I go for EW which is a high risk high reward build.
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Permalink | Quote | PM | +Rep by Peppo_oPaccio » June 25, 2014 2:30pm | Report

My general combo goes like this(not counting spirits, they are pre-summoned) , Tornado, Meteor, Dblast, EMP (then refresher if i have ,another def emp ) After this coldsnap, alacrity and SS are usefull for finishing off people, but mostly none live after this except 1 or 2 guys. I really like having the aghs for this combo as it lets me get off that emp fast enough ( As for why I emp fourth is to regain mana and not so much for damage)

As for preference, dont consider this rude but I dont really find QW at all a challenging build, its way too easy and the skill ceiling for that is pretty low, though you can do monstrous things with a right tornado, I once cancelled 2 ulties with it, real fun.

My preference is always with exort builds as they let you use other spells, while exort spells tend to rely SOLELY on exort for damage and I use the others for the debuffs. Mostly as soon as level 11 i have 10 spells to use which is much more as compared to QW( no 1 will use exort lvl 1 meteor now will they? maybe to scare someone, but only against inexperienced guys).

Though I play what fits the game, If i have a lycan or NP on my side, I go QE ; If the enemy has mana dependent heroes I do go QW, and if the enemy is all squishy and i'm feeling particularly baller I go for EW which is a high risk high reward build.

The Aghanim's Scepter is definitely useful if you want to land that extra EMP, but as I usually use either Meteor or EMP and keep the other for when the Tornado/ Cold Snap is off cooldown I don't think it's necessary. Invoker though, especially with QE builds, can farm it very fast, so even if I don't use it it's not wasted money unless you have to get a Scythe of Vyse because the enemy carry is too scary.

And about the QW/QE debate, I simply prefer QW because movement speed and better positioning makes this Hero much more useful in ganks (remember what I said in the first post? :D) and when chasing; after all, I've always been a fan of racecar builds, and Invoker is no exception. QE gives me a feeling of "no farm no win" and leaves me with a powerful yet slow Hero, and while I can use it well and I like it it's nowhere near as fun as the QW build for me. Winning the lane and wrecking in teamfights is nice, but being an annoying wizard that runs faster than Usain Bolt and brags about his first blood is much more satisfying. :D

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Permalink | Quote | PM | +Rep by Ab4ddon._.E43 » June 25, 2014 3:45pm | Report
The racecar is fun, just wrecked the enemy team with it, though mobility is useful, its not always necessary or un-countered.
Like in games I face a bloodseeker KNOWING what should be done, I couldn't give a rat's *** bout mobility as his rupture wrecks it.
I went QE on his *** and well when he silenced me i managed a triple kill, lol his team started saying fail mid at the 15 min mark.

At the end it all comes down to THE ENEMY LINEUP, what they pick, you can counter accordingly.

EDIT : Exort is global , getting 1st blood while in a totally diff lane is damn fun :D
I am the Abaddon *****!!!

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