Spectre, Medusa, Void

yes she would

if she didnt get one crit ...

if she did then bye bye carry

and most people play her ******ed ... she should not even come out of the jungle until she has helm bf and maybe skull ... you cant compete with her if she gets crits not even deadalus does that much damage ... a six slotted PA can kill anyone in one hit void six slotted usually only has artound 2.6-3k health .... one crit and hes dead

and timbersaw? pfffft yea you might kill her at lvl 1-7 but after that your just walking gold to her.

IMO Void would crush PA 1v1. he just has to chrono her, and 5 secs are more than enough to get the kill.

PA's not even close to a hard carry. She's a good 1v1 fighter (not the best) but unfortunately this isn't a 1v1 game. I don't think I've seen a 1v1 fight between carries break out in lategame with no interference, ever. Problems with PA:

Can't blink on a BKB'd target
Screwed by forcestaff, bonus AS is lost if she changes target.
Squishy against MKB.
Almost zero AOE presence.
Very weak pusher for a carry.

Playing PA as anything but a midgame ganker and attempting to snowball is literally praying for bad enemy team and RNGesus.

this so much.
single target DPS loses in lategame to any other proper lategame utility.

The only utility PA can bring is through a Skull Basher. That isn't nearly enough in order to qualify her as a "hard carry"

You can improve your RNGesus with more attack speed/agility, and she's scarier than people think with a lot of farm...however I think overall she's one of those heroes who loses more than she gains later on. Her evasion will get countered by Monkey King Bar (huge loss), while her blink attack stops working or is easier to evade - she's not the quickest changing targets against the likes of Force Staff and Ghost Scepter. The only thing she's really got left is her big crits - and as good as they can be, I fear the likes of Ember Spirit and Kunkka more for that kind of thing.

So yeah, personally I think she offers a lot more midgame than the likes of Void, and there's no doubt she can outcarry with a farming advantage. Don't generally like to see a Battle Fury on her.

if i would take sando's list and adapt it towhat i think it woud be this.

9 Lone Druid becouse of the bad scaling on the bear.
10 Faceless Void
10 Medusa
10 Spectre
8 Lifestealer is INSANELY strong at his timimg window.
7 Alchemist is all about being 10k ahead, gets kited and is too squishy when against burst.
6 Sniper
9 Morphling
9 Phantom Lancer
7 Troll Warlord
10 Naga Siren
8 Doom Bringer
7 Lycanthrope only gets a 7 becouse of his tower pushing, otherwise a 6.
8 Phantom Assassin
8 Tiny but becomes 10 with wisp.
7 Slardar
8 Wraith King
8 Sven
8.5 =D Anti-Mage
8 Gyrocopter
8 Ember Spirit
7 Dragon Knight
8 Luna
8 Shadow Fiend
8 Weaver
7 Chaos Knight
7 Kunkka
8 Nature's Prophet
6 Ursa
6 Drow Ranger
6 Bristleback
7 Clinkz
5 Spirit Breaker
8 Outworld Devourer COME AT ME! BKB HEX REFRESH OD OWNS
6 Silencer
7 Templar Assassin
8 Meepo
7 Mirana
5 Viper
5 Juggernaut
5 Razor
7 Riki
8 Slark is really underestimated, can get a lot of damage items becouse of his survivability
6 Broodmother
6 Huskar
8 Tinker y u do dis sando. tinker is the man.

i have ignored farming speed, if i would include that then all strength heroes would get -1

Yeah - that's the thing with all this stuff, it's really, really difficult not to let your own perceptions and experiences shape how you rate these heroes...then trying to compare them to each other, especially when a lower number may counter a specific higher number etc.

I'm just glad you were that close to some of my thoughts Tim :D

Y'see, for me OD and Tinker lose out on those high ranking because they both really struggle against BKB - oh noes, no Hex, no nukes, no pure damage...eeek. LD always gets a 10 from me purely because of inventory space if nothing else - having the likes of 2 x Abyssal Blade is pretty scary. I think Troll Warlord is scary cos of permabash and how quickly he can knock down rax with ult steroids for his team.

As you say, it depends on what your criteria is - Manfighting, teamfighting, split pushing, utility, farming speed, damage potential, etc.

The other thing is how much opinions change with the Meta - Naga was never particularly rated as a hard carry, but more recent split pushing builds have pushed her into a serious late game carry. Lycan always used to be played as a DPS (he has some serious damage steroids), but is used as a pusher now. Anti-Mage is a pain in the bum as he's such a hard carry early on, but drops off later...my god that window where he owns thou :(

the thing is that hex is really good against bkb heroes and od does so much damage that he can blow a hero up before he BKB's.

force>hex>BKB>eclipse>refresh>eclipse>hex>BKb if needed.

and tinker has global presence and perma hex with constant dagon/E-blade damage.

lycan really falls off imo, his main power is destroying the base once you make a mistake but he isnt the hardest carry. 7 is good but i dont think he is an 8.