Help Support Our Growing Community

DOTAFire is a community that lives to help every Dota 2 player take their game to the next level by having open access to all our tools and resources. Please consider supporting us by whitelisting us in your ad blocker!

Want to support DOTAFire with an ad-free experience? You can support us ad-free for less than $1 a month!

Go Ad-Free
Smitefire logo

Join the leading DOTA 2 community.
Create and share Hero Guides and Builds.

Create an MFN Account






Or

New KDR System Implemented in Dota 2 May Result in Increase of Dagon Purchases

Please review our General Rules & Guidelines before posting or commenting anywhere on DOTAFire.

Thread Locked

This thread has been locked by the moderators, you cannot reply to it.

Forum » Theory Crafting » New KDR System Implemented in Dota 2 May Result in Increase of Dagon Purchases 24 posts - page 1 of 3
Permalink | Quote | PM | +Rep by Pu12e » October 3, 2013 1:00pm | Report
We are all familiar with the concept of KDR and the debate that Value is having on whether to implement a KDR system in Dota 2 or not. A few of my friends that work for Valve have recently told me that Dota 2 may eventually implement a cumulative KDR tracking system in the next release. I still need to be hush hush about it but it�s not 100% as of yet. So what if this does eventually happen? What if Valve implements a KDR system in Dota 2?

Well let�s talk about it.

The Dagon, a simple item useful to all heroes and the Core build on many at least in my opinion. If Dota 2 does in fact implement the cumulative KDR tracking system I believe that the purchases of Dagons will skyrocket. Player will begin to see a lot more Dagon lvl5�s and a lot less Dagon lvl1�s. Players will be racing with each other to purchase the highest powered Dagon on the team to try and get the last kill. I also believe that Hoods will then also become essential items on heroes, but that is a whole other story.

What do you guys think?

Pu12e


Notable (11)
Posts: 540
Steam: Pu12e
View My Blog
Permalink | Quote | PM | +Rep by R-Conqueror » October 3, 2013 2:41pm | Report
NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO
I got to Notable, Thanks!
Check out my carrying guide: http://www.dotafire.com/dota-2/guide/alchemist-shrugged-a-carrying-guide-8022

R-Conqueror


Remarkable (24)
Posts: 503
Steam: R-Conqueror
View My Blog
Permalink | Quote | PM | +Rep by AngeloBangelo » October 3, 2013 4:41pm | Report
First of all, this will never happen ever. Feel free to quote this and put it into your signature for the future:

Dear Pu12e: I, AngeloBangelo, will buy you $100 worth of steam items if a KDR system is implemented into DotA 2.

Now let's say it does happen (Which it never will. Sorry bro), it would only change the meta in the lowest of tiers. It will never change high tier gameplay unless the item itself is changed. Heroes of Newerth can be used as an example here. If you didn't play HoN, I'll try to explain this in a simple way:

You had a score that represented who you paired against when queuing that was 100% visible. When someone looked at your profile, it listed how many kills you've had, along with deaths, assists, wards placed, average game length, number of each streak (Killing spree, etc) how many double/triple/ultra/rampages you've had, etc etc... Everything.

You started at 1500 and went up or down in score based on wins or losses, and the points gained or lost depended on the score of your opponents (Crushing bad players rewarded little/no points). In HoN, my MMR hovered between 1850-1900. My friend ShieLD hovered between 1950-2000. The highest I had ever seen on a professional player was 2100. My KDR was about 0.6, with double that in assists. So my average score per game was like 3-7-14 or so. Yet I was in an MMR range that few acquired. Less than 1% of players ever reached 1900 or higher.

Dagons built by myself: 0
Dagons built by friends: 0
Dagons built by pros: 0 (Unless trolling)

The point is: Even if DotA profiles became as detailed as they are in HoN, good players will never use dagon to stat pad (Make their KDR look better). The only people that will care are players new to the game, or low tier veterans. I probably have some of the worst KDR on these forums, but I'm confident (And hopefully this doesn't sound arrogant) that I'm one of the strongest players here as well.

If you can't get over your ego/e-peen to play solely to win as a team (opposed to trying to win as an individual) you'll never ascend to top tier.

#realtalk

AngeloBangelo

Awards Showcase
Show more awards

Memorable (50)
Posts: 271
Permalink | Quote | PM | +Rep by PeachFuzz » October 3, 2013 7:28pm | Report
Still, Spectre and Furion are better for getting high KDR than a Dagon.

PeachFuzz


Notable (11)
Posts: 183
Steam: PeachFuzz
Permalink | Quote | PM | +Rep by Pu12e » October 4, 2013 9:46am | Report

First of all, this will never happen ever. Feel free to quote this and put it into your signature for the future:

Dear Pu12e: I, AngeloBangelo, will buy you $100 worth of steam items if a KDR system is implemented into DotA 2.

Now let's say it does happen (Which it never will. Sorry bro), it would only change the meta in the lowest of tiers. It will never change high tier gameplay unless the item itself is changed. Heroes of Newerth can be used as an example here. If you didn't play HoN, I'll try to explain this in a simple way:

You had a score that represented who you paired against when queuing that was 100% visible. When someone looked at your profile, it listed how many kills you've had, along with deaths, assists, wards placed, average game length, number of each streak (Killing spree, etc) how many double/triple/ultra/rampages you've had, etc etc... Everything.

You started at 1500 and went up or down in score based on wins or losses, and the points gained or lost depended on the score of your opponents (Crushing bad players rewarded little/no points). In HoN, my MMR hovered between 1850-1900. My friend ShieLD hovered between 1950-2000. The highest I had ever seen on a professional player was 2100. My KDR was about 0.6, with double that in assists. So my average score per game was like 3-7-14 or so. Yet I was in an MMR range that few acquired. Less than 1% of players ever reached 1900 or higher.

Dagons built by myself: 0
Dagons built by friends: 0
Dagons built by pros: 0 (Unless trolling)

The point is: Even if DotA profiles became as detailed as they are in HoN, good players will never use dagon to stat pad (Make their KDR look better). The only people that will care are players new to the game, or low tier veterans. I probably have some of the worst KDR on these forums, but I'm confident (And hopefully this doesn't sound arrogant) that I'm one of the strongest players here as well.

If you can't get over your ego/e-peen to play solely to win as a team (opposed to trying to win as an individual) you'll never ascend to top tier.

#realtalk


Did ytou really have 1900-2100 MMR? Can you prove it? What is this Stat Pad in which you speak of?

Trust me when I say that Dagon items will be purchased more in low and high tier games once the KDR system is out.

I played Tournaments in HoN and won Cash Prizes. Can you beat that?

I am all over HoN http://clans.heroesofnewerth.com/clan/TaX


In HoN I was a legand see below:


Your text to link here...

Pu12e


Notable (11)
Posts: 540
Steam: Pu12e
View My Blog
Permalink | Quote | PM | +Rep by xCO2 » October 4, 2013 9:54am | Report
PeachFuzz wrote:

Still, Spectre and Furion are better for getting high KDR than a Dagon.


Spectre Dagon, mind blown.

xCO2
<Moderator>

Awards Showcase
Show more awards

Memorable (72)
Posts: 1542
Steam: RUSH_and_ABUSE
View My Blog
Permalink | Quote | PM | +Rep by Hades4u » October 4, 2013 10:05am | Report
Message me if you'd like to join our official Discord server!

Hades4u
<Community Lead>

Awards Showcase
Show more awards

Distinguished (296)
Posts: 4708
Steam: hades4you
Permalink | Quote | PM | +Rep by AngeloBangelo » October 4, 2013 10:47am | Report
Pu12e wrote:

Did ytou really have 1900-2100 MMR? Can you prove it? What is this Stat Pad in which you speak of?

Trust me when I say that Dagon items will be purchased more in low and high tier games once the KDR system is out.

I played Tournaments in HoN and won Cash Prizes. Can you beat that?

I am all over HoN http://clans.heroesofnewerth.com/clan/TaX


In HoN I was a legand see below:


Your text to link here...


Stat padding is doing things like: Buying a Dagon and kill stealing constantly. This makes your stats look better on paper when people view your profile. You'll have a better KDR when viewed.

I've played in tournaments and won cash prizes as well. Canada cup alone was $500 to a team that I'm not even on. It was myself, ShieLD, and 3 strangers.

Proof that I was 1900-1950 MMR? Well, in your "bragging" thread, you barely achieved 1800, and I'd say to anyone that specs one of our games versus one another, they will most likely say I outplay you (This is obviously 100% subjective, they may say the opposite. However, I'm confident they won't). This would place me above 1800, at least.

You weren't a legend in HoN. You made threads, then link back to them. I could make a thread called "ANGELOBANGELO'S WORLD FAMOUS RUBICK STEALS" and just brag all day. It doesn't make me famous.

If you'd like to rematch, feel free to message me and set something up. Get the best players in TaX Collectors, and I'll bring my strongest players. We can organize a day/time for a scrim. I'll even make a thread advertising it in the IH forum, and we'll get as many specs as the game can hold. Some members can cast it too! I know ShoNishino just made that "casting" thread. This would be a great opportunity. That's the only way I could somewhat prove my MMR to you.

Back to the subject of the thread, a KDR system would never change high tier play. No one cares about KDR. Professional players picking up Specter is one of the strongest examples of players not caring about KDR. One of the best things to do late game as Specter is to fight and purposefully get focused to die. Then your team initiates after death, you buy back, haunt in, and win the team fight. You don't see professional players saying "U GO TANK FIRST AND TAKE STUN SPELLS SO I DPS. I CANT DIE I AM CARRY". They play to win, even if it means dying.

Edit

Hey, just a heads up man: I clicked that link of your clan. The average rating is 1523, and the Kill/Death/Assist ratio is 1.02/1.00/1.49. So... You may wanna get on that. BARELY one kill for every death? Their KDR doesn't seem to be very good, and that's all that matters according to you, if I remember correctly. :D

AngeloBangelo

Awards Showcase
Show more awards

Memorable (50)
Posts: 271
Permalink | Quote | PM | +Rep by Pu12e » October 4, 2013 11:02am | Report



Stat padding is doing things like: Buying a Dagon and kill stealing constantly. This makes your stats look better on paper when people view your profile. You'll have a better KDR when viewed.

I've played in tournaments and won cash prizes as well. Canada cup alone was $500 to a team that I'm not even on. It was myself, ShieLD, and 3 strangers.

Proof that I was 1900-1950 MMR? Well, in your "bragging" thread, you barely achieved 1800, and I'd say to anyone that specs one of our games versus one another, they will most likely say I outplay you (This is obviously 100% subjective, they may say the opposite. However, I'm confident they won't). This would place me above 1800, at least.

You weren't a legend in HoN. You made threads, then link back to them. I could make a thread called "ANGELOBANGELO'S WORLD FAMOUS RUBICK STEALS" and just brag all day. It doesn't make me famous.

If you'd like to rematch, feel free to message me and set something up. Get the best players in TaX Collectors, and I'll bring my strongest players. We can organize a day/time for a scrim. I'll even make a thread advertising it in the IH forum, and we'll get as many specs as the game can hold. Some members can cast it too! I know ShoNishino just made that "casting" thread. This would be a great opportunity. That's the only way I could somewhat prove my MMR to you.

Back to the subject of the thread, a KDR system would never change high tier play. No one cares about KDR. Professional players picking up Specter is one of the strongest examples of players not caring about KDR. One of the best things to do late game as Specter is to fight and purposefully get focused to die. Then your team initiates after death, you buy back, haunt in, and win the team fight. You don't see professional players saying "U GO TANK FIRST AND TAKE STUN SPELLS SO I DPS. I CANT DIE I AM CARRY". They play to win, even if it means dying.

Edit

Hey, just a heads up man: I clicked that link of your clan. The average rating is 1523, and the Kill/Death/Assist ratio is 1.02/1.00/1.49. So... You may wanna get on that. BARELY one kill for every death? Their KDR doesn't seem to be very good, and that's all that matters according to you, if I remember correctly. :D



Lol.... I clearly outplayed you in those mini scrims we had. Again 3 of 5 were not my own, just people I picked up and played with for the first time to find out they were not very good. If you look at the KDR in the gameyou can see that they fed hard. I was laughing at them for feeding the whole game.

Let's have a rematch this weekend and ShoNishino can cast the game. Prepare to get wrecked lol!!!!

Also I do not think you are a very good player... I am sorry to say that but from your playstyle in those games it's hard to believe that you even reached 1650 MMR :(

About the TaX Clan, well it was created in beta out of the 300 players we had 7 of them including msyelf that represented us in scrims and matches.... The KDR of that group was something like 2.5/1 .... Sorry to just blow your post out of the water but..... I hope you post better content in the future,

<3,

Pu12e

Pu12e


Notable (11)
Posts: 540
Steam: Pu12e
View My Blog
Permalink | Quote | PM | +Rep by AngeloBangelo » October 4, 2013 11:06am | Report
On my play: I'm sorry to disappoint you.

On the scrim: Cool. Can't wait. d(^.^)b

AngeloBangelo

Awards Showcase
Show more awards

Memorable (50)
Posts: 271

DOTAFire is the place to find the perfect build guide to take your game to the next level. Learn how to play a new hero, or fine tune your favorite DotA hero’s build and strategy.

Copyright © 2019 DOTAFire | All Rights Reserved