Better than your average catapult!

I used to play tiny the old way - initiate/support. After a couple of tries with this (and similar) carry tiny builds, I only play Tiny as a carry. I especially love to pick the Rock if facing Meepo or other melee carries. "Oh hai Faceless Void! you have Battle Fury and Daedalus? hit pretty hard, eh? well, taste my craggly and eat a tree!" :) Love it.
Allways go Phase Boots -> Drum of Endurance and then it varies, depending on how the game goes.

Carry Tiny is a popular build and an effective one. The caster orientated you're thinking of is an outdated playstyle, the equivalent of Sven support. You're not getting a bottle if you're safe laning, and you'll need the clarities if you plan on a kill lane, which Tiny has a lot of potential in.

He does not need a Blink Dagger in this build, he has two active spells, and you'll be whacking away in melee range. You're trying to tell him he needs the old Arcane, Blink, Aghanims; but you don't realise that Tiny is one of the hardest carries in the game. And I wouldn't consider something that's been used quite frequently in recent cash tournaments. The new standard is Drum/Manta/Aghanims.

I really disagree with this guide. Tiny has a very high base damage, and if you can't last hit with that, a QB won't help you.. Not to mention the fact that you left out bottle, which is a core item for an efficient Tiny. also 2 clarities are unnecessary, because he shouldn't be spamming his skills early game, and he should be able to get a bottle by lv.4


Not having blink dagger is another HUGE disadvantage. Tiny requires positioning to land his skills correctly, and with an arcanes build, he won't have enough move speed to chase.

TL;DR:
Only a noob would need a QB to last hit with Tiny, only a bad player would go straight for a carry build with Tiny.

I can't agree with Quelling Blade. Tiny has really high base damage, so unless you want to completely shut down some hero in solo mid situation (SF comes to mind) and you're being really terrible at lasthitting at the same time, you shouldn't take it.
Taking Stout Shield would be a much better idea imo (if going side, for mid fast bottle build should be better), 0 armor + support pulling = lots of creep harass.

I mean, I'm relatively new to D2. I quit playing allstars, when Slark was released, so I managed to forget everything I knew. But still, Tiny has buttloads of Damage, so you should be fine. Not to mention how nice lasthitting is, if you're in a safelane.


Also, I like to go Treads. They give AS, to counter ulti (which I'll take at lvl 10, most of the times) and well, switching. They work well with either bottle or side lane support with arcanes.

PolakLad, I think your mind is still back in the days when Tiny was used as a solo mid ganker, with Arcane Boots and Blink Dagger: this is definitely viable, but nowadays competitive players tend to rely on him as a counter to Phantom Lancer or for pushing purposes, hence why he gets that safe lane hard carry role.

Of corse you want a trilane when you play Tiny in the easy lane (much like Gyrocopter), but if your teammates are good enough they will let you get as much solo experience and gold as possible, pulling to keep the enemy creep wave under yor tower and stacking the jungle and ancient camps for your post-scepter farm. In the worst case scenario, anyway, the Drum of Endurance gives you a strong mid game and opting for a quick Yasha as a core might be the best choice if you can't get enough farm.

Hey, I published one of the other Tiny guides and i make it my duty the population has a good idea how to play the hero.

Firstly, I don't necessarily agree with some of your opinions. Safe lane tiny is generally not viable unless in a trilane situation with characters like Shadow Demon or Keeper of the Light because otherwise laning with a semi useless support generally doesn't work out for you because Tiny as a character NEEDS to be able to gain an advantage over his enemies. THIS is why solo lane XP and solo lane farm is extremely important. Another example of this would be referring to Blink Dagger in order for tiny to be viable for carry he needs gold to reach his carry potential. I believe you shouldn't focus 100% on farm but more on ganking, some might appose my opinion because in the last few weeks we have seen mid lane in the pro seen more of an XP and farm lane than a constant kill lane as in previous weeks.

Secondly, I believe it is very worth it to max Toss first as the utility is very much needed and essential. Because of this getting levels in Grow! is important as it gives a nice bonus to toss damage is you toss an enemy.

In summary, the blink is essential, ganking is essential, XP is massively essential and gold will come with the package.

If you haven't already keep your mind open and read my guide "Tiny - Steamtrain carry"

Too many guides here just throw Quelling Blade onto melee heros as staring items. Yes, life is easier to last hit. No, it isn't vital. Unless you are a hard carry with low Base damage or expremely farm reliant, Quelling Blade should not be on listed.

That is 250 gold that could have gone towards a Bottle. Or arcanes. Or... even better, regeneration, since tiny starting armor is 0 and he is a melee hero. Competent players will look at a single tango start and right click you. You will not be able to safely lane because you don't have the regen needed. Any time a salve would be useful, you will have to spend time away from XP to go back to base, then spend 135 on a TP scroll... or spend even more time away from XP to save that money.

Low regeneration is fine When you know what you are doing. And by that I litterally just mean bottle rushing. 3 GG branches and a tango to allow yourself 300 gold ahead of the enemy in getting a bottle (which is one of the best regens for tiny anyway)

Also- I strongly disagree with the double clarity start. "Mana problems" arise from people using their spells when they really shouldn't. "I see a hero, let's avalanche" "oh... now I have no mana..."

Just last hitting to get the bottle quickly is the best solution to these mana problems in my opinion. With a bottle, you can spam your spells much more effectively.

The skill build- it is normal on Tiny to skip the ult until your toss and throw are maxed, since those are the actual abilities that matter. Grow gives you movement speed and a bit more damage at the cost of attack speed. It is a great skill, but growing isn't the most important thing to do. (especially since Tiny has annoying backswing on his animation as is)


Back to items: Your situational items seem to leave a bad taste in my mouth. Yasha? Tiny is a STR hero who is also very fast from his ult + boots. Moreover, yasha is a medium grade item that will either be a Manta Style, Buttlerfly, or Sange and Yasha. It should never be just a yasha and leave it at that.

Same goes with the hyperstone. Hyperstone is awesome, but make it an item that is going to have a lasting effect on the game. AC works well because of Tiny's low armor and the aura debuff for enemy armor is great while STILL giving you the attack speed you were looking for to offset the ult. Mjolnyr works for the same reason... it isn't a "medium" item, it a a good item that you can get quite quickly because of your cleave from aganims.

And while I hate to say it- Divine Rapier should be in situational AFTER you have Ags. Only to be used if you are really behind. Like you have no towers left and if you don't do something quickly you will lose behind. With it tiny can knock out creep waves in 1 hit thanks to cleve and his massive bonus damage. Also, since Ags gives bonus building damage it will alow the rest of your team to come out of the rut they have gotten caught in.

(and just to be clear, I mention this because I have actually seen this occur on a Pro level match)

Nice guide +1 I only have a couple of minor issues that are more to with formatting than anything else

You mention it in your guide but you should probably add a Magic Wand to the build itself and also it might be a good idea to split your build up into starting, early, core, luxury and situational rather than the long item progression. Your build makes it look like you take energy booster before boots so you should switch those around.

Also tiny does occasionally go mid - I know he isn't the greatest hero for mid but it can work on occasion - for this reason you might want to put in a piece on how to mid tiny and in this is the case then a bottle becomes situational.

And lastly some friends and foes would be nice. Going up against a Nyx Assassin with his carapace and his mana burn isn't fun whilst laning with a kotl or lina makes getting early kills almost too easy.

Nice Guide

Thank you for the feedback, I've added your comment to the guide

You're missing the Yasha, probably the most popular pre-scepter item on Tiny: it adds attack speed, movement speed (which stacks with your already high speed) and, above all, armor. Professional players tend to go to the safe lane and buy Arcane Boots/ Phase Boots, optionally Drum of Endurance then Yasha and Aghanim's Scepter: turning the sword into a Manta Style is optional, you should do so only if your enemies have debuffs ( Open Wounds), DoT spells ( Shadow Strike) or easy-to-avoid stuns ( Magic Missile).