Agility Heroes Like Clinkz are Inferior

This forum post/page just seem like some butthurt clinkz player being annoying and wasting peoples time. Stop building MoM and you will win. Atlas is a very good player and you should listen to him.

MoM works fine when you have 30% spell resistence.

And like I said, your suppose to always keep your stats maxed with skills after putting 1 point in to searing, and 1 point in to the other skills.

Later, if you feel like you need to take strafe or skele walk as far as level 2 or 3 because battles are not lasting long enough and your mask of madness is not getting you places quick enough, then that is up to you, but stats and death pact come first.

Try activating mask of madness before going in to skele walk and see how fast it gets you somewhere.

MoM means you will take 30% extra damage from all sources except pure which cannot be modified. thats composite,physical,magical,chaos and mixed damage modifed by 30%. If you are seriously putting only 1 point in skills and taking stats and death pact then its no wonder you're losing every game. you're taking 'mid or feed' the wrong way.

The proof is in the pudding.

Why don't you play clinkz and get your mana regen items to make orchid... and when you die, or your team loses because your not effectively doing anything in early/mid battles, it wont be because you didn't cast your skele walk fast enough... no... it will be because you couldn't survive long enough past the massive spell blows to give our skele walk a chance in the first place.

Good luck being a massive burden to your team until you truly know how to play the char.

Clinkz is a hit and run hero. If you walk into a teamfight and don't stay off to the side just shooting your arrows then you are going to die fast. If you play him against a team of nukers, you are doing something wrong. You are not the first line of defense. You are the little annoying prick that stands in the back picking people off and spamming flaming arrows which give you 50(!!!!!) damage per hit at max lvl of the spell and if you are not doing that, you are playing him wrong.

Mask of Madness also increases damage you take by 30%. I don't know what you were reading but you read it wrong. The great thing about orchid is that in addition to the amazing regen which lets you keep flaming arrows on all the time and spam skeleton walk or use death pact whenever its off cooldown, you can silence people so they don't kill you immediately and unload all your damage on them with strafe. The potential of this item and its silence for a glass cannon like Clinkz is what can get him so many kills if played right by just picking people off.

You should also be able to hit max move speed with max level of skeleton walk and upgraded boots. You dont need a MoM for that.

Well, I'm not positive I can quite make sense of why someone insists first that Clinkz (and all agi heroes in general) are "inferior", and then insists that those who have had success playing the hero are doing it wrong, and then ignores all the advice they give, but I'll try to explain why the "standard" Clinkz build is standard.

First, you seem to have it in mind that Orchid is, pure and simple, a mana regen item. Which it is, but it's also a very efficient and easily-built DPS item with a silence that just so happens to last Roughly as long as it takes Clinkz to murder a hero (actually, he only needs to about 78 % murder them, since the orchid damage amp takes care of the rest). An added bonus is that no part of Orchid costs more than 900 gold, which means you're constantly improving your farm/sustain/DPS as you build it. The silence is especially important, as it's such a huge part of what keeps you from getting stunned and melted early. Essentially it forces the other hero into an AA duel with Clinkz.. And for most heroes, that's a run-or-die situation, in which running usually also means death. Early on, that silence is more than enough for Clinkz's survivability, since you should be looking for lone heroes, and ganking them after snacking a jungle creep. Don't try to dive on more than 1 hero unless you have teammates to help. If you find yourself trying to solo 2-3 people and are losing most of your Clinkz games, you've probably just found why.

Later on, your role changes a little. Solo ganks are harder because people tend to group up more (though if the other team has that character that absolutely insists on jungling his way out of a net worth hole, feel free to treat him as a 250 gold creep). For the most part, though, you'll want to stick with your team, let them initiate, and then pick a target to orchid and melt. Oftentimes, you'll be more survivable now because your items will be giving you some defense options, depending on what you chose. When not helping your team, you can also backdoor towers to help get your team and yourself some gold. As an added bonus, dropping the towers will occasionally prompt the other team into dispatching a hero to counterpush lanes that are getting a little out of control in your favor. If they do, snack time.

There are a few things you're doing that are also probably harming the performance of the character, prompting that charge that he's "inferior".

First, I can't say I endorse stats early on a Clinkz. Sure, it helps his HP some... But 38 HP is nowhere near as good for him as an extra level in any of his skills, all of which scale well and synergize beautifully. I usually max searing arrow, because early, that's the source of most of your damage, and it helps tremendously with last hits. Furthermore, at 8 mana a pop, they're phenomenal orb-walking harrass which can help buy you breathing room.

Don't neglect Skeleton Walk either. Sure, the invis gets countered a lot, but is still useful for slipping past observer wards to gank, and most importantly, gives a huge MS bonus with a couple of ranks. At level 4, don't think of it as an invis. Think of it as a haste rune on demand, good for escaping, chasing, scouting, or repositioning.

And the wonderful, wonderful strafe. This takes your DPS through the roof for short, crucial bursts. Leveling this has the important bonus of reducing CD, which means fewer situations in which you'd love to strafe, but can't because of cooldown.

All of this brings more to the table for Clinkz and his playstyle than stats, so I usually only take stats when I have to on him.

Regarding MoM, the points made about it making you even squishier are all valid, but there's another point that hasn't yet been made that is also important: MoM's lifesteal and your searing arrows are both orbs. You will only lifesteal while you're not using SA. Early and mid game, that 50 damage is worth so much more to you than stealing 17% health per hit on the 60-70 damage you do early with no SA. For Clinkz, lifesteal only really becomes an attractive option once his 50 damage orb doesnt make as much of a difference, which happens primarily late or very late for him. Unfortunetely, MoM is just not a late game it (if you must have lifesteal on Clinkz late, an I'm not sure I'd agree you do, grab Satanic instead). Furthermore,the attack speed boost, while nice, shouldn't really be needed on a Clinkz with a couple of strafe ranks.

I think part of the reason you feel "useless" in early fights without mask is that your suggested skill set doesn't make good use of his damage potential by neglecting Searing Arrow, doesn't make good use of his ability to quickly traverse the map by not ranking up SW, and leaving his base damage fairly lacking by building strength and regen items, rather than working on agi/attack speed/damage.

There are many valid weaknesses to worry about on Clinkz, I just don't believe that inability to participate in early ganks/skirmishes is one of them. For a carry, he does admirably well early because of how quickly his DPS comes online if you don't faff around with stat boosts instead of skills.

I hate people who write long posts expecting you to read what they write when they demonstrate that they have read hardly anything of what one's self has written.

What you just said brought nothing to the table that isn't already known, you're just stating the obvious, you completely neglected the concept I was providing and raw stats DO work better with MoM, especially when you consider crit damage.

You act like orchid is so good because you can silence, but a Drow can silence your strafe first thing.

Clinkz isn't Mouse2 Ranger, and shouldn't be played like her. Nor is comparing what the two are capable of particularly valid if you want to find the proper way to play Clinkz. If you want a thread on which is the better character, by all means start one, but this is a discussion about Clinkz, and Drow has about as much place in it as she does in Captain's Mode.

While stats do help make Mask better, by the time you've set yourself up for stats + mask, you've taken a pass on most of what makes Clinkz good.

The idea isn't to make mask work for Clinkz (it's just not a good fit), it's to come up with the best way to make use of Clinkz's strengths.

What you seem to be trying to do is find a way to make a Mask build work. What I'm saying is that a better end result is gotten through other means.

Since you don't like long posts, here's the more-than-200-characters;dr version:

Clinkz with skills + orchid > Clinkz with stats + mask and whatever else he can buy with the 2k gold difference, regardless of how much stats help mask.

If that was still a little wordy, I apologize, and will direct you to a proper source of spookiness for your skeleton archer:

+2 spooky

You've now learned all that the community is likely able to teach you about Clinkz.

well, I'm pretty sure now
This is oviously a trolling attempt, just dont reply or it will never stop <.<

Clinkz may be a carry, but he's a carry in the sense that he should be described as "Gank Coordinator" and/or "distracting assistant"

At first, it is all about using Urn, Medallion, and Jango together. Monitoring the enemy team with skeleton walk and then using 150 damage from earn and 6 armor reduction from medallion to weaken the sheep that has gone astray, and then using the jango as the team goes in for the target to ensure the kill.

Even after this, Mask of Madness and blade mail are ideal to complete a concept. Attack + steal life as the enemy(particularly melee) moves in, activate blade mail, attack and steal life on their way out, activate mask of madness to hunt down but be prepared equally to use the run walk to fall back.

He should also be noted for his ability to quickly bring a negative presence to enemies and a simultaneous positive presence to allies with out being targeted using items like Radiance or Vlad's.

If one is dying more then he is killing then he should begin the defensive progression of items via rings of regeneration and rings of health at the secret shop.

I will admit that of the suggested items for clinkz Crystalis to Daedius is the most important, while orchid is just simply good on him, nothing more.

Like I said, all of this flawed conceptualization of clinkz stems back to wc3 where night elves were speculatively under powered due to the the pathetic archer. Even so, people never utilized their actual power which was a timed Archer + Kog push in to level 1-2 thorns, in to true shot + faerie fire, in to marksmanship/double chimera roosts.

The only missing buff to complete the concept was the life leach aura of the undead which can be gotten in 2v2 play.

Think about it... You're a glass cannon as you do amplified damage to enemies that have reduced armor, while your attack is boosted by true shot. You steal massive amounts of life with vampiric aura, while the enemy, in the mean time does damage back to himself. Entangle is critical to keep units from getting away from the focus fire....

This is suppose to be the real and true reason why the "Glass Cannon" Concept actually works in a balanced fashion. Steal massive amounts of life while coupled with damage returned... And the true counter to it is suppose to be upgraded heavy blows that shatter the cannon in one hit so that life is not capable of being leached in the first place... If you have been handling the harassment poorly by not falling back to heal, then you should die on the damage returned strike.

Anways, wc3 was a balanced game, people just played night elf wrong. My main beef is also not with this one but rather Starcraft 2. The zergling = Melee Archer, and the Roach = Huntress. My best guess is that blizzard thought that all they had to do was give zerg a unit like the roach and that it would balance things out because it filled the role that the huntress did. Lo and behold that the huntress is what people always went instead of archer because it was obviously better as it was more cost effective right? The interesting part is that the archer was even more progressively useful in to mid and late game with hipporgryphs.

I won't deny that thorns makes sense on units that can take more hits, however, a glass cannon can potentially steal more life back faster to make the damage returned more effective and more useful.

The zergling in starcraft is a failed unit concept... It doesn't get life steal, and it doesn't get thorns. You would think that it would be something like a ghoul or archer ey? They removed the one thing that gave the zergling hope from broodwar, the dark swarm, and then nerfed the adrenal gland. Even despite all of this, you would think that if blizzard was going to put a unit in the game like a roach to fill a role gap, that they would actually realize that the zergling isn't even playing the progressive role that it was suppose to when compared to the archer.

Overlord's occupy production(Larvae) while supply depots and pylons do not interfere with production what so ever. The ability to float your overlord around is suppose to make up for this, but the overlord has half the hit point value. In order to utilize effective dropping capablity, you have to research 2 upgrades that, totally, cost more then the individual dropping means of terran and protoss. The medi-vac even has the natural ability to heal their stimmed marines.

Yes... from the start, zerg are damned because as the game progresses, they are pushed further and further in to conducting a mass drop as you continue to waste more and more larvae on overlords that you don't intend on using beyond a weak scout that, even some say, should be sacrificed for vision...

The real truth is that the overlord is missing mid tier utility significance for occupying larvae, and following the motif given by the broodlord, the overlord should act as an unloaded gun that when loaded with zergling ammo would now get zerglings in range for proper efficiency and perhaps even impact damage to boot. It's a familiar concept of design revealed by using archers on hippogryphs for air to ground focus fire damage. This is the progressive archer value that I was talking about...

I may be saying that agility heroes like clinkz are inferior because they don't fulfill their role either by misunderstood design or execution, but you have to understand where I am coming from.

If anything else, recognize how this company known as Blizzard Entertainment has insulted the professional community with their ignorance and failure to take accountability for how broken the zerg race has become, simply because they feel that more zergling deaths = more entertainment = more profits. That game is not even half the game that warcraft 3 is in regard to an E-sport that can be taken seriously. All they would have to do is remake warcraft 3 arcade style and it would be 10x the e-sport starcraft 2 is, and I bet you anything that they would even mess that up.

Please do me a favor and do not waste a dime on that conceptual disaster.