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Underpowered heroes?

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Forum » General Discussion » Underpowered heroes? 21 posts - page 1 of 3
Permalink | Quote | PM | +Rep by Sp3ctr3 » March 13, 2016 11:23pm | Report
I was talking with some friends about some heroes this patch about why do we think they are weak and which one we think are the weakest among all the heroes. After that we started to look in the web about opinions about the same topic and I think it's a good idea to discuss that in here.
A lot of people said that Axe is maybe the weakest hero this patch, along side with Shadow Fiend, Storm Spirit, Tinker and Sniper. I can see the point in some of this heroes, but then I read about Troll Warlord, Lycan and Beastmaster. I don't think they are that weak, I mean Troll even get buffs in the patch I think. I don't see why he isn't picked in the pro scene, he can fight early, he scales good into the late game, he can push extremely well, I really don't see why he isn't picked.
Now, what do you guys think, which heroes are sh*t this patch?

Sp3ctr3


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Permalink | Quote | PM | +Rep by famasofwar » March 14, 2016 12:35am | Report

famasofwar


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Permalink | Quote | PM | +Rep by The Frosto » March 14, 2016 1:06am | Report
The winrates from dotabuff aren't accurate enough to see which heroes are ****. Most players are also <2k mmr and the other big junk is 2-3k mmr so the winrates are almost purely on the so called "trashtir" and not on the competitve scene. A more accurate winrate is shown on the meta statistics and than you take the >5k mmr row. There you will see that io has almost his winrate doubled.

Also Troll isn't picked not because him being really bad, because he is just middle of the pack, but there are just better heroes.

I would say that the worst hero at the moment is Sniper and Storm Spirit. Sniper has no damage output and farming potential at all until he has some slots filled, which takes really long. Storm just doesn't have enough mana to do something and Bloodstone, the storm item, got also some hard nerfs.
Any man can make mistakes, but only an idiot persists in it.
-Cicero

And still every dota player flames someone else instead of himself.

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Permalink | Quote | PM | +Rep by Cuttleboss » March 14, 2016 9:46am | Report
Alright, let's look at some of the heroes.

Pugna, somehow, despite Enchantress, OD, Zeus, and Invoker being in the meta, he should be showing off his power but also this guy is still bad and will lose a majority of games against those heroes, even in 5k+. There's a few reasons for this. Even though he's been getting nothing but buffs, there are a few key issues on him that need fixing.
First, he needs to be able to buy Magic Resistance or BKB without making it so that he can't heal allies, since the heal amount is based on how much damage he takes, so buying resistance makes him heal people less.
A strength buff would also do him good, him having 4 int gain is no longer special, since Invoker has him beat in attributes, and he has trouble wrecking havoc being so squishy, it's probably what prevents him from being a good mid.
The other issue is in Life Drain itself, besides the fact that it ends when you juke it (that's kind of annoying), its the fact that you rely on Life Drain for mana sustain through midgame, but you have to be at full health when it ticks, which means the enemies can't have any DoTs on you, there can't be any creeps hitting you, and it doesn't work at all against Necro or Spectre.

Storm Spirit is having issues right now, its hard for him to farm, Bloodstone got nerfed, and the mana cost on ball lightning's increase makes it so that storm has a really hard time killing people now. It's hard to put him anywhere else other than mid however, and overall, even though his late game is untouched, it's really really hard for him to be useful before then. Probably need to give him some kind of buff to make his early-mid game playable again, because now he only seems to work if he has some kind of easy midlane like Pudge, or buff his late game so safelaning him is viable.

Axe. Getting hit by the nerfs 2 patches ago still hurts. 0.4 cast point on Berserker's Call was extremely noticable, making it much harder to land stuns. The nerf to all his damage in that patch too made it even harder to snowball with this hero. Then with Iron Talon jungling, his jungle speed is now relatively slow, whereas before it could be considered impressive. This leaves Axe entirely dependent on his laning phase to snowball, one of the smallest snowball windows in the game, otherwise he's really really useless. Sand King a few patches ago had that tiny window, but at least his stun had some sort of decent range. Axe's late game is still pretty good if he can actually successfully call the enemies twice in a fight, but that almost never happens.

Phantom Lancer. This hero was not that strong, this hero's carrying potential only seems to work against Ursa, Viper, or Huskar. The only thing that was unfair about him was the doppelganger, but now he's really bad, he can't carry on his own, he takes forever to activate, his farm rate is not great and doesn't have sustain, and the 500% damage taken by his illusions is just way too much, while so many heroes can make him completely irrelevant (Sand King, Ember, Zeus, Timber, Magnus), there's just not enough payoff from this hero. Pick Chaos Knight or something.

Other weak heroes: Bristle (too dependent on lane snowballing for success, farms too slowly otherwise), Sniper (not enough damage, AGI and Assassinate too low, farms slowly), Bloodseeker (skills are not strong enough, hard to snowball with, easy to nuke down), Phantom Assassin (unpurgeable Silver Edge, MKB and Abyssal losing damage, and many items are not viable on her).

Cuttleboss
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Permalink | Quote | PM | +Rep by famasofwar » March 14, 2016 12:14pm | Report
I think the winrates are fairly accurate since they represent the dota community as a whole. Most people aren't in the top 5% or so.Competitive data is only good if you are able to make the strategies and coordination among your team work imo.

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Permalink | Quote | PM | +Rep by TheSofa » March 14, 2016 12:35pm | Report
imo pit lord's pretty bad rn

honestly though, Timbersaw's pretty bad

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Permalink | Quote | PM | +Rep by Sanvitch » March 14, 2016 12:47pm | Report
famasofwar wrote:

I think the winrates are fairly accurate since they represent the dota community as a whole. Most people aren't in the top 5% or so.Competitive data is only good if you are able to make the strategies and coordination among your team work imo.


DOTA generally isn't balanced across the whole community, but around the professional scene. It's why heroes like Io have had trash pub winrates without any real buffs to try and fix that.

So the DOTAbuff winrates don't talk about the actual balance of a hero. Neither do winrates in general rather.

Since you just can't have enough Chaos Breaker.

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Permalink | Quote | PM | +Rep by famasofwar » March 14, 2016 1:20pm | Report
Sanvitch wrote:



DOTA generally isn't balanced across the whole community, but around the professional scene. It's why heroes like Io have had trash pub winrates without any real buffs to try and fix that.

So the DOTAbuff winrates don't talk about the actual balance of a hero. Neither do winrates in general rather.


Fair & agreed.
In that case I'd say KotL is also underpowered imo.

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Permalink | Quote | PM | +Rep by Safecyn » March 14, 2016 1:44pm | Report
Patch 6.87:

Chakra Magic cooldown reduction rescaled to 10/15/20/25%.

Stiiiill wouldn't change how boring be can be, though. XD

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Permalink | Quote | PM | +Rep by Sp3ctr3 » March 14, 2016 11:01pm | Report
Then what does Troll Warlord needs to make his way back to the pro scene? I love the hero and I'm playing with him more since PA is really weak this patch.
With the new changes to Abyssal Blade and Monkey King Bar, what should I buy on PA? I have been trying Daedalus, but I don't know if that's just crazy.

Sp3ctr3


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