To hell and back

Hi, great guide and I'll give you a well deserved +1. I usually play position #5 and I know about all the money issues this position has, so I know that in some games getting both Blink Dagger and Force Staff can be really hard, but if I have enough money I always buy them. You talk a lot about Euls and the ability to purge silences, but you are forgeting a new item that does the same thing and that has more impact as a support item and that is Lotus Orb. I tend to build this item a lot, it gives you armor which helps you to stay alive, hp and mana regen and the active can remove debuffs from you or your allies. Glimmer Cape is an excelent item but the mana cost of the active is huge so you have to watch your mana in a figth. The same applies to Mekansm. I have build Dagon a lot of times with Lion (don't judge me) and is really fun to use the Dagon's active and finger in quick succesion.

Ty!
1) I said something about it in my guide I think but the item itself is very good for Lion but the thing is that Lion scales with mobility. You could get it after Blink Dagger if you like it that much. The thing is that you usually need other items but as a general rule:
If you got both of your mobility items and don't need anything else get Aether Lens.
2) Eul's used to be good on everybody but now it is not really worth it on Lion anymore.
The only reason to get it would be to dispel (remove) silences if there are too many of them
in the enmy team.

Hi, amazing guide I have two (perhaps noob) questions for you or anyone reading this.

1) Is aether lens good on Lion? I mean, his 4 spells benefit from the extended range.
2) In wich cases should i built Eul? it looks like an awesome item but i never see it on "Core" items

Thanks

I can't say more than, amazing guide

Great guide! I'm a position 5 player and my best heroes are lion and lich. I really like the 2 points in mana drain before 6.
Maybe you could add some tips about zoning, warding and stacking to turn this into a perfect support guide... one of the problems I usually encounter when I try to play carry is that my support doesn`t play as I'd like him to because of those details.

+1

Keep the good work

Great guide! I'm a position 5 player and my best heroes are lion and lich. I really like the 2 points in mana drain before 6.
Maybe you could add some tips about zoning, warding and stacking to turn this into a perfect support guide... one of the problems I usually encounter when I try to play carry is that my support doesn`t play as I'd like him to because of those details.

+1

Keep the good work

Pretty good job.

I think Huskar also counters him pretty hard.

Good Guide. Gave it a +1.

Im a 2k ish player and if i play lion i have to spam hex earthspike. The only think that can ceep me from doing that is. Stand still and use mana drain because then it is like hey my mana i have to kill that guy... (maybe people are getting mad cause they are used to me taking ther life but not thier mana) So i can see why he is the opinion that he needs mana.

You're right, that's why I suggested listing Refresher Orb as a "Luxury". You'll rarely have the gold to go Scythe of Vyse + Refresher Orb, but Quadra Hex makes Lion arguably the best Super Late Support in the game. <}3

---

I don't know why you think that Lion has Mana problems. I repeat, if you don't have enough Mana for your Full Combo, it's because you're not managing your Mana properly. The only Item you should ever need to give you extra Mana is a Magic Stick.

At the 18th Minute, you'll probably be around lvl11 with either 4-2-3-2 or 4-1-4-2

At lvl11, you have a Base of 676 Mana

lvl4 Earth Spike costs 170 Mana
lvl1 Hex costs 125 Mana, lvl2 costs 150
Mana Drain costs 10 Mana, and at lvl3 will recharge upto 300 Mana (600 at lvl4)
lvl2 Finger of Death costs 420 Mana

Granted, you no longer have enough Base Mana to pull off a Full Combo, but you can get up to 150 Mana from a Magic Stick (it's not hard to store 10 charges every 100 seconds). You can also upgrade this to a Magic Wand for an extra 52 Mana + upto 255 Mana from Charges. You can even buy a Bracer for another 39 Mana.

So at lvl11, with a Magic Wand, you have between 728 ~ 878 Mana to work with and your full combo costs 750 (740 if you ignore Mana Drain). You only need 1 or 2 charges on your Magic Wand or a Bracer + Magic Stick with 2 or 3 charges at lvl11 to be able to pull off your full combo at lvl11. Again, if you're not a full Mana, it's because you're not managing your Mana properly.

At lvl16, you have a Base Mana of 897, with a Skill Build of 4-4-4-3 and 1 point in Stats, 1027 Mana with Force Staff / Staff of Wizardry, 1071 ~ 1326 with Magic Wand).

lvl4 Earth Spike Costs 170 Mana
lvl4 Hex Costs 200
Mana Drain costs 10 Mana
lvl3 Finger of Death costs 650 Mana

Your Full Combo costs 1030 and by this point in the game, you should have a Staff of Wizardry (you'll either have obtained your Blink Dagger and starte on Force Staff, or you won't have had enough gold for Blink and started / completed your Force Staff instead. You shouold have enough Mana for your Full combo at this point in the game as well.

At no point in the game should you ever have trouble getting off a Full Combo

Arcane Boots are fine as a Situational Item...if your Team needs them. They can be useful against EMP and Sanity's Eclipse, but if you, as a Support Lion are getting hit by these, you should have already blown all your Spells anyway.

...and again... Mana Drain...spam it! Spam it on the Offlaner! Spam it on Ranged Creeps! Spam! Spam! Spam! Never stop Spamming Mana Drain...ever! It is just that good. <}3

Oh. That's, like, 18th minute or what?

At the time it is really relevant, you'll need 2.5 seconds to get just 100 mana which can be the difference between your enemy escaping or getting chain-disabled. Also ask yourself the following - for a hero with 2 disables, full HP and no mana would you rather have 150 mana more and 150 hp missing or being full HP and completely useless for your team at that second?

And being squishy shouldn't prevent you from buying Soul Ring on any hero, especially Lion - if you're that squishy that 150 HP mean so much, you would be burst down by any engaging hero anyway. Let's not pretend that staying alive was ever a higher priority than casting spells for Lion.

Same goes for Arcane Boots. Nobody cares about "inefficiency" and "no sustain" on a hero with abysmal ulti cd and spells he cant sustain enough early on anyway.

"Worlds most favorite grill gamer" :O just because of this you deserved the +1 ahahah but GASP also wall of fame what is thiz!

Kidding ofc, but anyways the guide is fantastic, what on earth were you talking about indeed :D

Super complete and well presented. Do more on other supports!

BTW: nevermind all that Xyrus said, he just likes to do walls of text ;) except ignore the Soul Ring indeed, in that respect he's right ahah

Uhm...I actually got Refresher Orb in a few games after my Scythe of Vyse because quadra Hex and double Earthspike seemed like fun. But isn't this all a bit expensive?
I will add more content to this guide when I find the time to do so. Ty for your suggestions!