Templar Assassin's Timing Window, and Ancient Stacking

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Hello all.

I noticed a conversation on TA and her timing window, and I'd like to add my thoughts as well as create a thread so others can add theirs.

As a TA spammer, I can say these for sure:

Ancient Stacking is a good way to get gold, later.
TA has two peaks, much like Ember Spirit. One with max Refraction and Meld, and one at mid-late game.
TA is a single-target hero hitter, and an AOE creep hitter.

wrote:

By the way just because there's a lot of people stacking jungle and ancients doesn't mean it's a good idea. Personally I die a little every time I see a Templar Assassin stack ancients. Just because the hero can do this doesn't mean that he should...the hero peaks at level 8-10 and should gank not farm, every TA I've ever seen stack ancients just misses his timing window and throws the game as surely as an AFK midas Enchantress does.

Yes, I agree that TA does have a peak at levels 8-10. However, this does not mean that stacking Ancients is necessarily a bad idea.

For one, you can have your supports stack the ancient. That way, you don't have a waste time stacking them yourself and you can go around and kill people.

Also, if you're playing radiant, you can stack ancients every 2 minutes when you're leaving for the rune. Finish the creepwave that arrives at :45, leave, stack the ancients, and then go for the rune. Also, if you get an Illusion Rune, you can stack them that way.

It's not as bad as a Midas Ench. But if you're stacking and not killing people when you're levels 8-10, that's bad.

wrote:

This is just SO so wrong. (except the midas enchantress part)
Every decent TA player stacks ancients. TA peaks when she has blink+deso at anywhere from 15-22 mins. Everyone is food for you if you have that at a decent timing.
TA needs some farm to wreck stuff.
Just watch waga...

I disagree with the first two sentences. You do not need the Deso to go around kill people, because TA already has around 200 damage at level 10 with offensive refraction charges, Fazes, and a Wraith Band.

TA does need some farm to wreck things. As I said before, TA has 2 peaks, like Ember. A post-laning stage peak and a mid-late game peak.

wrote:

So? That doesn't mean farming Ancients stacks is as game losing as you say it is, because it's not like the hero legitimately has to hit that timing window and that window alone, because every single timing window in the game is situational.

Just because your hero might have a peak at X minute doesn't mean that you'll have a team that hits X minute, or that the enemy team won't be at a peak at that minute and can punish you trying to get active then. Hell, sometimes there just won't be opportunities to get active on the map, and thus farming the stacks is more efficient than wandering across the map.

Or you can be like RTZ, feel confident in your ability to out farm the enemy team by a wide margin, and thus decide to have Desolator + Blink Dagger by the time your opponent is only have way to there first item through sheer efficincy, and blow people up even easier, and abuse that and your deso to take objectives more quickly, and still snowball super hard and dominate the game.

It's DOTA, there's very few things set in stone. You have to take things game by game, and in some games, ganking as TA when you hit a certain window just not efficient or the right call.

I agree with this. Although purely farming is bad, it's not wrong. TA is much like , in that the player needs to balance between fighting and farming. It's what took me so long to get the hang of at first. Efficiency is key.

In pubs you'll never get a team that peaks at the same time you do, so you'll have to make do.

wrote:

She does have to hit that window, especially in this kind of patch with constant pressure/fighting and low comeback potential.

Between 6 to 15 minutes is not only the time when TA is at the peak of her skills' power, it's also the time when the enemy team doesn't have a Mekansm and isn't 5-manning.

TA needs to find kills and start her snowball before the enemy team starts grouping up. She's a purely single target hero and she is at her most effective when the enemy team is split up. She can tower dive and solo kill almost any hero, but her teamfight presence is never that strong unless she's really ahead. And how do you get ahead as TA? By killing the enemy mid player and getting a fast blink.

So what happens if you stack ancients and farm for even only 15 minutes? The enemy team groups up and start pushing/teamfighting and deathballing you after you missed your window and before your safe lane carry hits his. You can't do anything against this, and TA is pretty useless from behind. GG.
This is especially true with heroes like Undying and Leshrac being in literally every game these days.

Seriously I've seen countless TA's fall into this trap. As one of my favorite streamers puts it, there are space creators, space takers, and space wasters. A TA farming for 15-20 minutes is a space waster.

Doesn't mean you have to gank early as TA in every game, of course sometimes there are no opportunities whatsoever, but you have to apply pressure in some way, even if it means pushing the mid tower, 5-manning a tower early, or roaming for kills in the enemy jungle. not farm. TA is a space creating hero in the 6->20 min window, that's all I'm saying.

So unless you feel like you need to stack ancients to farm your blink (probably costs you an entire creep wave of time to clear the stack so I'm not even sure you gain anything from it)...why just why.

I have mixed feelings about this.

First I have to agree that a TA farming for 20 mins is not using the hero correctly/to its fullest potential. However, pubs are pubs, and if CritShaker works, then so does this.

I don't quite understand what you mean by no comebacks. Because stacks are a good way to comeback.
What do you do when SF has had a bad lane? You stack for him.
What do you do for a TA who has a bad lane? You stack for her.

TA is not the greatest space-creator. You must admit that. If you wanted a space-creator, you would've picked , or . You picked TA because you wanted a hero with absurd early-game power as well as late-game potential. A good TA player makes good use of both.

A TA player who farms for the first 20 mins is only making use of the latter, and risking that the game might not even get there.

A TA player wandering around looking for kills for 20 mins is only making use of the first. This is better that the first scenario, but is still not using TA to her fullest potential.

Sorry for the really long post guys.

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Good post. If you want even more things in depth, just watch this(to settle it for sure).

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=c2-mMtU5FIg

Explains why ancient stacking is good on . You can just farm 4 stacks with TA at level 7 and get blink easily.