Zeus support guide for pub [by mat.]

.. i dont want to get into this .. its too long :)

using nuke in a suport way is more beneficial to team, zeus is not carry, carry should take kills.
that simple, u can play for your fun anyway u want but i reckon people will get mad ;-)))

First big mistake is by no chance this is a support build. The simple statement " extremely item dependant" makes it 100% not support. The lack of any healing, crowd control items, etc, also makes it not support. Even more, standard Agh+Refresher build is and will always be nuker build, nothing else.

Second bad statement. Don't pick Zeus vs durable. You are very very wrong. Is one of the best heroes against durable due to his passive. Safely spam Q and you'll do tons of dmg. After all Zeus is top damage dealer in entire game.
Biggest problems for Zeus are enemy Agility Carries, not Strenght ones. Like AM. Like PL.

Ulti scouting has a ton of more usage. For example at ulti level 1 you can initiate jungle ganks when u know opponents have a jungler on the job (just don't do it alone). Also, ulti initiate is best used to kill AM early on, on lane. Just ask a laner pressure AM a little so he can see it as a danger, position yourself on retreat path, and ult. Most of the time (again, early game) AM will blink towards base, so if you positioned corectly he is now in your W and Q spam area. Enjoy the kill while you can, later on he will not care much about you or your agh+refresher.

Biggest mistake I see everywhere (even at my bro). If you choose mid lane, at least for early stage you are supposed to be the freaking initiator, not third lane. After all you are highest level in your team and Zeus has a very decent + str/level. Add bottle and you already have highest survivability in your team at level 6-7 (with few exception). Yes, later on, depending how game goes you must consider staying safely back, but that's a matter of judgement.

Want a very good example where you can stay very very offensive during all game ? While pushing highground, Zeus is number one threat. ALWAYS !. Simply cause u can spam W without targeting heroes, so you can reveal sight or also if lucky you can directly hit heroes without even seeing them. Best help u can give for pudge for example. So yes, as vision he is godlike.

So to make a quick list, you can help all during game heroes like:
- Bloodseeker, if u can ult to low hp enemy heroes.
- Spirit Breaker, offering him charge chances if he reacts fast.
- Pudge and Clock, offering close range vision on highground for hooks. Also works now well for Riki's ult.
- Combo with Ancient Aparition ult( let him ult first always, if he applies his ult but can't kill anything by itself use ult also so u can bring them low enough to shatter.


As an answer to usage of Veil od discord. If you don't have items as blink dagger or shadowblade this item is extremely risky to use. Why ? In early game you are slow, so when ganking using veil you lose maybe 1 second and the chances to lose sight or just lose target while casting W and Q makes the item not excelent.... If you choose veil+Q+W vs W+Q+W you always lose. In late game you will be much much closer to the fight than you wanna be. Better let a melle support take it since it help him more since it has survival stats also and he is ment to be in the fight anyway.

Veil of Discord is worth mentioning with Zeus since it can increase your damage more than an Aghanim's Scepter

Good point, in a different view as You can see damage AS benefit, sonner you get AS bigger effect it has, without point booster you would have to spam bottle a lot between ult refresh ult, and enemy would regen a bit in that time.
For a later game combo damage with Septer is 1280 without 950, its only 330 difference but trust me it could mean a lot.
and I do agree mobility is huge issue, I solve it by sticking with durable hero, dont go for over aggressive plays, which require skill.

Anyway my aim is low skill low mobility team nuker guide, You described high level skill agile ahead of the teamfight finisher which is great but I am unable to capture this kind of play in this simple pub guide and I dont want to encourage new players to do this straight away it would end in tears :D

..may be sometime I can upgrade guide to this madness.

thanks point taken

I must say I dislike the Aghanims Scepter pickup.
I mean what are you getting out of it?
215/190/165 dmg? for 4400 gold?. That's not worth it, especially not on a support that will need mana regeneration and mobility.
Why not get a Force Staff and/or a Eul's Scepter of Divinity?
Or if you really want to rush an item to boost your ult get a refresher.
The mana-reg and the active are more useful that a tiny bit of dmg and stats that Zeus cab't use.

But that are just my two cents

hey DarthB,
thanks for comment, yes I do agree guide starts mid "resembling" core but finishes undefined I will think about this, just need bit of time.
Also irritating part will get changed ;-)
I choesed this mid start layout because it worked best for me at pubs ..laning with someone would not work usually zeus would fall behind, he just needs fast 6 otherwise its not worth having him.
anyway its pub guide so its not perfect world.

now im gonna play a bit, correctins will follow soon
thx m.

Hi mat.

nice guide: it its really good that you highlight a lot of mistakes Zeus players do often in pubs, like using their ulti to kill steal.
And dewarding with Zeus is really nice: A lot of zeus players do not do that very often.

Maybe u can better distinguish between core and 2nd support zeus in your guide? I'm a bit irritated by this sentence:

"For a standard game it should go like this:
If mid is available for You ask for 2 Tangos and get Bounty Rune and go for Bottle straight away."

If you play second support you will help in lane to secure carries farm and if you go mid its for a gank to help your mid lane.

You're item build also looks like for a core hero. As 2nd support zeus you may choose another item over aghs depending on the game. There are many games when a support cannot afford 4k items but a rod of atos or euls are good candidates to simplify ganks and create space in team fights.

Just my two points.

Greetings
DarthB