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Do you guys think it's possible to hit an enemy with ghost ship twice if using X-marks?
You xmark an enemy, cast ghostship, enemy teleports back, and gets hit again?
(or if the enemy uses force staff)
I think Kunkka skill builds really differ depending on how much points you get on X Marks the Spot for the game and your skill distribution in the early game.
While a 4-4-0-1 by level 9 build might sound tempting and powerful, if you don't have extraordinary setups it just won't work well, especially if the enemy team is prepared.
Personally I go for a 1-2-2-1 build by level 6, proceeding to max w and then q - it guarantees me a kill on the enemy mid if the hero is not too tanky and is below 75% health because of the early 2 E points. I've seen other variations of this, notably 2-1-2-1 and 3-0-2-1. While coordinating with your team is important, I believe Kunkka needs the ability to kill the enemy mid on his own at one point (level 6) to start snowballing.
I would seriously recommend the 1-2-2-1 build.
The other thing that mainly bothers me is the lack of mention for Blink Dagger and the rather large focus on Shadow Blade - late game, X Marks the Spot into Blink Dagger is a reliable way of dishing damage out while staying relatively safe, and while Shadow Blade is still nice it isn't really core anymore on Kunkka imo considering the nerf it got.
I haven't tested the Desolator effect ingame after the recent patches Aba, I'm just repeating what it says on the Wiki (which is usually gospel) - would be good to have a solid answer on this!
I haven't tested the Desolator effect ingame after the recent patches Aba, I'm just repeating what it says on the Wiki (which is usually gospel) - would be good to have a solid answer on this!
Bonus point for anyone who knows who the picture at the top is?
I haven't actually played a lot of Kunkka, but I have a question: Don't you generally want to max cleaves ( Moon Glaives etc]] last because you don't want to push the lane?
It's a little different with Kunkka. His cleave is actually bonus damage instead of reduced damage like most other cleaves, so it's basically a mana-free nuke every few seconds that keeps the opponent either out of range or constantly taking damage.
It does push the lane out, but the benefits are far more useful than your other skills at early levels. That level 4 Tidebringer damage is massive against softer targets early on.
You also don't have the mana to justify using your "real" skills very often, so having a free, reliable passive is a huge bonus. You're never left without an option.
"Cleave does not affect the primary target of the attack. Damage done is determined by the actual damage of the attacking unit, not the damage that the primary target takes from the attack. If an attacking unit misses, whether by evasion or blind, units in the area will not take damage. Damage dealt by cleave is reduced by armor type and damage block, but not armor value and can't be evaded. It is derived from the actual damage of the attacking unit (as opposed to the damage that the primary target took from the attack).
Cleave does not extend the attack effects (including unique attack modifier) or buffs that the attacking unit has. Cleave is also considered one of attack effects, thus doesn't stack with others. For example, if a Hero with Cleave has Desolator, only the primary target of the attack will receive the effect. The only attack effect that affects Cleave is Critical Strike. If you proc a Critical Strike when you cleave, the damage dealt to all affected units will be multiplied. It is because Critical Strike alters the actual damage of the attacker."
So I'm pretty sure the armour reduction has no effect on the cleave whatsoever (bar the primary target), while the crit does impact on the whole AOE effect - hence why it's usually preferred. Tbh I'll always pick up Daedalus before Desolator, but it can be a good option later on for pushing, ganking individual heroes etc - you're quite possibly not the only DPS on the team. Also the raw damage on Desolator is nice.
But yeah, the unreliability of Daedalus is a factor - all you can do to get round this is stack more of them, but this is always at somewhat diminishing returns.
Sando actually your itteration of the information is incorrect. Cleave damage is base off on a % of damage done TO THE PRIMARY TARGET, so a desolator hit actually does significantly more damage than without one( try in WTF mode using a deso and a simple relic).
I do sometimes opt for it, though people tend to think that it doesnt work, it actually does.
I haven't actually played a lot of Kunkka, but I have a question: Don't you generally want to max cleaves ( Moon Glaives etc]] last because you don't want to push the lane?
Nope, pushing with Cleave lets you clear a Creep Wave easily, control Runes while Creeps are under the other Tower and make it harder for the other guy to Farm.
It's different from Moon Glaives because you dont want to Push the Safe Lane, Pushing Mid or Offlane early on is usually advantageous if you can get the Creeps under the other Team's Tower.
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Do you guys think it's possible to hit an enemy with ghost ship twice if using X-marks?
You xmark an enemy, cast ghostship, enemy teleports back, and gets hit again?
(or if the enemy uses force staff)
Great guide as always.
I think Kunkka skill builds really differ depending on how much points you get on X Marks the Spot for the game and your skill distribution in the early game.
While a 4-4-0-1 by level 9 build might sound tempting and powerful, if you don't have extraordinary setups it just won't work well, especially if the enemy team is prepared.
Personally I go for a 1-2-2-1 build by level 6, proceeding to max w and then q - it guarantees me a kill on the enemy mid if the hero is not too tanky and is below 75% health because of the early 2 E points. I've seen other variations of this, notably 2-1-2-1 and 3-0-2-1. While coordinating with your team is important, I believe Kunkka needs the ability to kill the enemy mid on his own at one point (level 6) to start snowballing.
I would seriously recommend the 1-2-2-1 build.
The other thing that mainly bothers me is the lack of mention for Blink Dagger and the rather large focus on Shadow Blade - late game, X Marks the Spot into Blink Dagger is a reliable way of dishing damage out while staying relatively safe, and while Shadow Blade is still nice it isn't really core anymore on Kunkka imo considering the nerf it got.
Otherwise, the guide is really well done.
Bonus point for anyone who knows who the picture at the top is?
Captain Readbeard Rum from "Blackadder". :)
I haven't tested the Desolator effect ingame after the recent patches Aba, I'm just repeating what it says on the Wiki (which is usually gospel) - would be good to have a solid answer on this!
I'm sensing Kunkka + Shadow Demon + Leshrac coming on here... 8{3
Bonus point for anyone who knows who the picture at the top is?
Alestorm?
P.S. - Armlet after crystalis is also an alternative to daedlus, more damage, HP, AS and armor (In case you feel squishy)
I haven't tested the Desolator effect ingame after the recent patches Aba, I'm just repeating what it says on the Wiki (which is usually gospel) - would be good to have a solid answer on this!
Bonus point for anyone who knows who the picture at the top is?
I haven't actually played a lot of Kunkka, but I have a question: Don't you generally want to max cleaves ( Moon Glaives etc]] last because you don't want to push the lane?
It's a little different with Kunkka. His cleave is actually bonus damage instead of reduced damage like most other cleaves, so it's basically a mana-free nuke every few seconds that keeps the opponent either out of range or constantly taking damage.
It does push the lane out, but the benefits are far more useful than your other skills at early levels. That level 4 Tidebringer damage is massive against softer targets early on.
You also don't have the mana to justify using your "real" skills very often, so having a free, reliable passive is a huge bonus. You're never left without an option.
From the wiki:
"Cleave does not affect the primary target of the attack. Damage done is determined by the actual damage of the attacking unit, not the damage that the primary target takes from the attack. If an attacking unit misses, whether by evasion or blind, units in the area will not take damage. Damage dealt by cleave is reduced by armor type and damage block, but not armor value and can't be evaded. It is derived from the actual damage of the attacking unit (as opposed to the damage that the primary target took from the attack).
Cleave does not extend the attack effects (including unique attack modifier) or buffs that the attacking unit has. Cleave is also considered one of attack effects, thus doesn't stack with others. For example, if a Hero with Cleave has Desolator, only the primary target of the attack will receive the effect. The only attack effect that affects Cleave is Critical Strike. If you proc a Critical Strike when you cleave, the damage dealt to all affected units will be multiplied. It is because Critical Strike alters the actual damage of the attacker."
So I'm pretty sure the armour reduction has no effect on the cleave whatsoever (bar the primary target), while the crit does impact on the whole AOE effect - hence why it's usually preferred. Tbh I'll always pick up Daedalus before Desolator, but it can be a good option later on for pushing, ganking individual heroes etc - you're quite possibly not the only DPS on the team. Also the raw damage on Desolator is nice.
But yeah, the unreliability of Daedalus is a factor - all you can do to get round this is stack more of them, but this is always at somewhat diminishing returns.
Sando actually your itteration of the information is incorrect. Cleave damage is base off on a % of damage done TO THE PRIMARY TARGET, so a desolator hit actually does significantly more damage than without one( try in WTF mode using a deso and a simple relic).
I do sometimes opt for it, though people tend to think that it doesnt work, it actually does.
I haven't actually played a lot of Kunkka, but I have a question: Don't you generally want to max cleaves ( Moon Glaives etc]] last because you don't want to push the lane?
Nope, pushing with Cleave lets you clear a Creep Wave easily, control Runes while Creeps are under the other Tower and make it harder for the other guy to Farm.
It's different from Moon Glaives because you dont want to Push the Safe Lane, Pushing Mid or Offlane early on is usually advantageous if you can get the Creeps under the other Team's Tower.