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If you feel better by making Skadi and Etheral, fine. Meepo is an easy target so I'd rather focus on defensive itens as well, such as Heart of Tarrasque. Remember that Assault will be useful for your whole team, which is different if you get a Skadi.
For the boots, I have to admit that
A Skadi gives, in total:
725 health, 0.75 health regeneration, 3.5 armor, 25 attack speed, 575 mana, 1 mana regeneration and 25 attack damage. This alone is sheer health and damage for all the Meepos, plus the slow is also very effective as well.
That's all.
Feel free to counter me, I got more stuff up on my sleeves to counter your guide, so do excuse me.
This isn't about winning an argument, this is about making a useful tool for the community.
If you have more flaws with the guide, it's probably better to say them so they can be fixed, rather than keep them up your sleeve for an inconsequential argument.
1)
A little comparison here below.
15 armor and 55 attack speed to main
10 armour and 35 attack speed to
Reduces enemy armour by 5.
190 health, 5.6 armour, 40 attack speed, 130 mana, 40 attack damage to
Active ability does high damage to an enemy (and scales too, usually the damage is about the same as a level 3-4 nuke of heroes like
For me, the sheer damage boost from
You really have to try
Feel free to counter me, I got more stuff up on my sleeves to counter your guide, so do excuse me.
So first off I'm going to preface this response by reminding you of what
You can say "I will increase my stats, hit faster and reduce enemie's movement speed." Well if you get an assault you will hit faster as well, your armor will be increased and your enemie's armor will be reduced, plus your whole team will receive it's benefits. Skadi is certainly a great item, however, which item would you remove to get this one (travel, aghanim, dagger, vyse, tarrasque, assault)? You'd probably say "assault", but with an assault your opponent gets so slow that a skadi wont make a difference, you will kill him the same way (or die trying).
Exactly, you hit the nail hard on the head buddy. Stats. Lots and lots of stats. Probably one of the only items in the game that focuses so heavily on all round stats,
Difusal:
Why would I spend 3150 to slow down my opponents if I have 4 (or even 5) earthbinds? 3150 is 3/4 the way to Aghanim's scepter. As meepo you must be worried about this: "How can I approach, poof and hit without being disabled?!" If you're intending to hunt alone-targets, then difusal should work, but I wouldn't buy this one.
This was the one that made me laugh most - here you directly display your lack of understanding of stats transferal and primary stats translation to damage. The primary reason to get Diffusal on Meepo is nothing to do with the active (that being said, it could be useful in some cases, against Heroes such as
This is a good item indeed but whenever you use this, your enemie will get outside your earthbind. 4900 is too expensive and I am pretty sure it's a luxury item. No one would build it before a Dagger, Aghanim and Vyse. Earthbind prevents your enemies from avoid fighting and vyse prevents them from doing anything, with this you have enough time to do your tricks and kill anyone. Also, remember that poof has dual-damage (going and coming), which means that if you use etheral and he walks away, your poof wont properly damage him by leaving, but certainly by coming. After all, I wonder whether or not this item is too useful as you believe.
Once again, Agi. Stupid amounts of Agi. This item gives the most raw agility in the game, which is transferred directly to all of your Meepo clones. It also gives some Str. and Int. too, so that's nice. The active really isn't even the reason you buy this item for Meepo - but that being said, it can be useful as burst damage (since, if you're building your Hero correctly, you should have a lot of Agi and Eblade will do a lot of burst), or to enhance
I have never tried SAY, would you recommend it and why?
Same reasons as the 3 aforementioned items - stats. Good all round stats, fairly easy build up. Not as ideal as any of the other items, but certainly an option, especially if you're behind. It's not really an item that you'd often get over any of the others, but because of it's interaction with Agh's it's certainly a viable option.
Never! :)
There's nothing you can do with 7 meepos that you can't with 5, except the fact that you can poof from a meepo to your illusion. Instead of spending 4950 you can get a bottle (and some wards) and check runes constantly, this is cheaper and useful as well as a Manta if you're intending to use them as a way to get closer. This is not so useful as it is on Chaos Knight and P.Lancer.
Ugh. Just, ugh. Once again, very good stats. Nice damage, nice tankiness. As with Skadi, and hex, anything involving
Both items I've mentioned above (Mekansm and Assault) are situational. Those itens are useful not just for your meepos but for your whole team. A skadi is certainly a great item but after 50 minutes of game it's just useful to you. Instead, an Assault would make you and your whole team a lot stronger. It's important to keep in mind that Meepo is strong when he gains xp faster than his opponents, but Meepo cannot face most opponents who're currently at the same level, which means that if all heroes are level 25 your advantage is over, so building items that helps your team is the key.
No. No, no, no no no no. No.
Also, Meepo is honestly fairly slot-limited, and there are far far better items that you can get to replace that AC, tanking up your Meepo's even more or giving them more damage. The Tankiness or damage from an AC does not even compare to that of a Skadi or E-Blade respectively. AC is far better to have on another Hero.
As for
Building items that help your team is most certainly not key on Meepo. You spend a lot of time alone on the map, and you're practically your own army. It's your team that should be buying items such as AC and Meka etc, which benefit both them and you without you having to waste your slots on them.
Of course, this is ignoring the fact that TP scrolls exist and that Meepo can poof to any other Meepo anywhere on the map, so if your Meepos are split you can have practically global presence from level 10 (or <10 + Agh's) onwards. Of course BoT's really enhances this, but it's not 100% necessary. Also, the stats from Treads (AGAIN. STATS.) are very important for Meepo and increase his damage a lot, which in turn helps in pushing.
At the end of the day the problem is your completely wasting to potential and purpose of your Aghanim's sceptre by going for the sort of build you're recommending. It's lackluster, and in some cases straight up worse. As someone claiming to be so experienced with Meepo, you seem to not realy be familiar with the most important point of Agh's and how you should itemize accordingly, and that's really bothersome. Having opinions and sharing them is fine, but trying to guide someone to do something which you yourself don't understand just leads other people into a trap of playing a Hero wrong, and at least to me, seeing that is really frustrating. Don't get me wrong, I'm not saying you don't understand Meepo, I'm sure you do - but when it comes to itemization, you're really need to put some work into it. If you're going to recommend something, make sure you really understand why you're recommending it AND why it's better than other items.. because, clearly, that's not something you've considered in this guide.
Sorry if I sound like a ****, I don't mean to, even if I do. Hopefully most of what I said here makes sense.
I'd suggest you check out some of the Top Meepo's on DotaBuff and pay attention to how they itemize. Also look up some videos or highlights on YouTube. Good luck.
Also, early game, Tread switching is very helpful. The bonus HP is great, the mana when poofing and using earthbind really helps a lot and once you've caught a hero or want to push, the AGI treads increase DPS by a lot. Since Meepo isn't by himself, with 5 meepos Agi treads give you like 45 damage? That's quite a bit for pushing IMO.
And, while I see a lot of players picking up E blades or Hex (both of which can be great) I feel like Skadi is preferable to a newer Meepo player. But combined with Hex, your kill potential is a lot better if the game goes on too late. Just my 0.02.
Yup,
Power Treads gives you mana and health, which is the same if you have Basilius and Headdress, except for the fact that you wont have the same stats (making your meepos more vulnerable) and that's the main critic of my guide. However, as I pointed above, your have mana/health regen with those two itens and plus, your vladimir is half built.
I don't blame people who build PT but I love to a versatile meepo who can travel back to heal and get back to the fight quickly, something which's not possible with a PT. Can you imagine Tinker without a Travel? Well this is the same thing.
I've just played 7 competitive matches using my own guide, but always making Vyse before Aghanim (because I had some serious hard counters) and this is working pretty well. I know you'll probably say "come on at 3k points anything works"... Maybe, but I've tried this with my friends against 4,5k and this is working the same way ^_^
After all it's not about the items you make, but the way you play and how fast is your micro, so this is not a hero for beginners. Any beginner who's not able to use multiple items and skills should just avoid playing as Meepo, or else your team will be very mad.
Soon I will enhance my guide with videos (from games I've played) to show my theory on the battlefield :)
"1000 games on
Hi Broken,
Thanks for your comment.
I've tested some of those itens you've mentioned above, but...
Skadi: (5675).
You can say "I will increase my stats, hit faster and reduce enemie's movement speed." Well if you get an assault you will hit faster as well, your armor will be increased and your enemie's armor will be reduced, plus your whole team will receive it's benefits. Skadi is certainly a great item, however, which item would you remove to get this one (travel, aghanim, dagger, vyse, tarrasque, assault)? You'd probably say "assault", but with an assault your opponent gets so slow that a skadi wont make a difference, you will kill him the same way (or die trying).
Difusal:
Why would I spend 3150 to slow down my opponents if I have 4 (or even 5) earthbinds? 3150 is 3/4 the way to Aghanim's scepter. As meepo you must be worried about this: "How can I approach, poof and hit without being disabled?!" If you're intending to hunt alone-targets, then difusal should work, but I wouldn't buy this one.
Etheral:
This is a good item indeed but whenever you use this, your enemie will get outside your earthbind. 4900 is too expensive and I am pretty sure it's a luxury item. No one would build it before a Dagger, Aghanim and Vyse. Earthbind prevents your enemies from avoid fighting and vyse prevents them from doing anything, with this you have enough time to do your tricks and kill anyone. Also, remember that poof has dual-damage (going and coming), which means that if you use etheral and he walks away, your poof wont properly damage him by leaving, but certainly by coming. After all, I wonder whether or not this item is too useful as you believe.
SAY:
I have never tried SAY, would you recommend it and why?
Manta:
Never! :)
There's nothing you can do with 7 meepos that you can't with 5, except the fact that you can poof from a meepo to your illusion. Instead of spending 4950 you can get a bottle (and some wards) and check runes constantly, this is cheaper and useful as well as a Manta if you're intending to use them as a way to get closer. This is not so useful as it is on Chaos Knight and P.Lancer.
Also, most of your "explanations" on why to get/do something lack depth and rather just explain what something does rather than how this is effective and in comparison to other choices.
On a more positive note, the formatting of the guide is quite nice and it's visually appealing. Could use a tiny bit of work, but that can be said about anyone's work.
Anyway, not to sound like a complete ****, but I'd suggest you invest some time on researching stat growth/gain and how stats work in conjuction with
I understand,
Both items I've mentioned above (Mekansm and Assault) are situational. Those itens are useful not just for your meepos but for your whole team. A skadi is certainly a great item but after 50 minutes of game it's just useful to you. Instead, an Assault would make you and your whole team a lot stronger. It's important to keep in mind that Meepo is strong when he gains xp faster than his opponents, but Meepo cannot face most opponents who're currently at the same level, which means that if all heroes are level 25 your advantage is over, so building items that helps your team is the key.
I will review my guide as soon as my exams on university are over, this is the last week :)
I've tried Power T. many times, these boots really helps you in early Team Fights but in my honest oppinion, Travel is a must just like dagger and aghanim. You can build a PT and then upgrade it to Travel, but your mobility in the first 20 minutes of game will be reduced a lot and your "meepo pusher" wont happen as expected.
Anyway, thank you for your comments. I will keep in mind Aghanim and PT as a possibility, but you will have to prove me that it's worthy.
Thank you, I've just changed them.
This is certainly a good way to gain xp and gold, however, you will need a great support to kill in safe-lane, specially because you will need 180 mana on each meepo to earthbind and poof. I wouldn't try that unless I have CM supporting me.
Yeah it's situational but I like to do it if i'm going to be jungling early on and we're running a solo lane. It dampens early kill potential but increases farm.
Also, early game, Tread switching is very helpful. The bonus HP is great, the mana when poofing and using earthbind really helps a lot and once you've caught a hero or want to push, the AGI treads increase DPS by a lot. Since Meepo isn't by himself, with 5 meepos Agi treads give you like 45 damage? That's quite a bit for pushing IMO.
And, while I see a lot of players picking up E blades or Hex (both of which can be great) I feel like Skadi is preferable to a newer Meepo player. But combined with Hex, your kill potential is a lot better if the game goes on too late. Just my 0.02.
On top of that, you're recommending items such as
Also, most of your "explanations" on why to get/do something lack depth and rather just explain what something does rather than how this is effective and in comparison to other choices.
On a more positive note, the formatting of the guide is quite nice and it's visually appealing. Could use a tiny bit of work, but that can be said about anyone's work.
Anyway, not to sound like a complete ****, but I'd suggest you invest some time on researching stat growth/gain and how stats work in conjuction with
Ursa is male and Winter Wyvern is now a female in Dota 2.
Thank you, I've just changed them.
This is certainly a good way to gain xp and gold, however, you will need a great support to kill in safe-lane, specially because you will need 180 mana on each meepo to earthbind and poof. I wouldn't try that unless I have CM supporting me.
As a fellow Meepo player, I feel like you should include skipping Net at lvl 1 and going for two clones and two levels in Poof for jungling early on if you get a few stacks. I like to do this in safe lane and then take Earthbind at level 4. With a support, should be easy kills.