Force Staff vs Dagon lvl 1 on Bloodseeker

Dagon 1 costs 2720 and gives +On level 1 a total of 57 health, 0.09 health regeneration, 0.42 armor, 3 attack speed, 208 mana, 0.64 mana regeneration and 12 (25 to intelligence heroes) attack damage.

Damage:400
With Bloodrage 4: 1,4.400 = 560
Natural magic resistance = 560.0,75 = 420


Force Staff costs 2250 and gives 3 health regeneration, 130 mana and 0.4 mana regeneration

Rupture lvl 1: 600.0,3 = 180
Rupture lvl 2: 600.0,45 = 270
Rupture lvl 3: 600.0,6 = 360

Damage per gold: 420/2720 = 0,15 for dagon lvl 1 and 270/2250 = 0,12 from Force Staff

Dagon gives far more damage early on but Force Staff gives more mobility and comes earlier, which should i go first in a mage blood build ? (should i go force staff at all if i start with dagon ?)

Bloodrage amplifies all damage types. Levels 3 and 4 also give you a timing window in which you can have it on two units simultaneously. According to the wiki, double Bloodrage amplifies overall damage to 56.25%/69%/82.25%/96%, I guess this is due to how the game calculates this stuff. Anyway, if you get a maxed Bloodrage on both yourself and your target:

Dagon 1 deals 400 x 1.96 x 0.75 = 588
Dagon 2 deals 500 x 1.96 x 0.75 = 735
Dagon 3 deals 600 x 1.96 x 0.75 = 882
Dagon 4 deals 700 x 1.96 x 0.75 = 1029
Dagon 5 deals 800 x 1.96 x 0.75 = 1176

Force Staff on a Ruptured target deals

Level 1: 600 x 0.3 x 1.96 = 352.8
Level 2: 600 x 0.45 x 1.96 = 529.2
Level 3: 600 x 0.6 x 1.96 = 705.6

The +14% Rupture damage talent can be chosen at level 20. By then you'll have maxed it pretty much every time. So

Level 3 + talent: 600 x 0.74 x 1.96 = 870.24

You can go further from here by buying Aether Lens, and even further by buying Ethereal Blade if you choose Dagon 5.

I personally go for Dagon 5 to one-shot supports from full health, but that's just me. Force Staff late game is a 2250 gold Aghanim-boosted Laguna Blade while keeping all the mobility and utility it provides.

Since mage Bloodseeker is essentially a support I'd advice to think like one. Enemy team has Riki, Clockwerk, Nature's Prophet, Rod of Atos carriers? Force Staff all the way. They don't? Consider which team has more overall mobility to see if you'll need it or not. Are they squishy? Early Dagon 1 kills could allow you to snowball, etc.

Sadly, I think mage Blood is not that great these days. He got amazing talents for right-click builds but pretty weak ones for caster builds.

Bloodrage is impractical enough to cast both on yourself and your target because of that annoying cooldown (why isn't there a talent or an aghs ability to remove that cooldown?), and even if you do manage to do that, the only thing you're doing is doubling nuke damage from your items.

As for dagon vs forcestaff, there's no controversy since you buy both. Dagon 1 first, then forcestaff. Problem solved.

You also forgot Bloodrage amplification on forcestaff damage. That's 705 damage with amplification.

In total you get
- 705 + 588 = 1293 damage after reductions with force + dagon 1
- 870 + 1176 = 2046 damage after reductions with force + level 20 talent + dagon 5

Add Blood Rite damage to this and you are at around 2.6k after reductions. Eblade puts that in the mid 3k range.

If you can do the combo with double bloodrage that is. Because it's super impractical.

Bloodrage cd is really ****, even to put it on yourself is already difficult and boring enough, the frog should fix it right away

Should you ever Aether Lens ? Euls should be bought after force staff ? what do i buy first Aghs or Etheral Blade ?

What do you think of the Necromicon build ? i think against almost every hero is a good go and the damage from meele creep gets super amplified.

It's pretty good, yes. Solves his mana issues since the build is pretty mana heavy, and cast range is super important in teamfights to combo people from afar. Buildup is natural since IMO you go Arcane Boots on caster BS not treads.



Euls sucks in that build. Does nothing useful. Go lens if you want mana regen.

You don't need a way to set up Blood Rite since your full combo relies on Rupture. Aghs is what you need for more ults.

And you don't need a way to cancel TP scrolls since it's an instant burst build. Even Blood Rite damage will go through if the target TP's out when you ult him, since TP takes 3 seconds like your W (and you cast yours before his).




Probably aghs. Rupture cooldown is a big limiter in that build.




Not a fan. There's no synergy with his skillset. Sure Bloodrage amplifies the damage but then nobody goes necro on Templar Assassin because she's got armor reduction...that's not a good reason :)
And if you build BS for physical damage you need a way to cancel TP scrolls, so early basher or MKB is the way to go.

IMO go this



With Blood Rite that's around 1600 damage after reductions with dagon 1 only. 820 cast range.

Then you can transition into either Dagon 5 or aghs.

With dagon 5 you get 1020 cast range.

For me a hero needs three things to be a good Necromicon holder (like Beastmaster)
-Someway to the enemy does not run away from the necromicon creeps (Beast has Roar and Bloodseeker has Rupture).
-Someway to amplify the damage the creeps like to do (Beastmaster has his atack speed aura and Bloodseeker has his bloodrage}.
-Somehow you lack pushing power (like blood).


Bloodseeker can be even better than Beastmaster as a Necromicon holder because he can give them more time to kill the enemy hero, or the enemy run and get hurted by rupture, or stay down and get atacked by the creeps, if he atacks back he can get up to 1000 damage from the creep Last wish ability, other good point is blood does not even need to cast bloodrage on himself.

Templar Assassin is not a good Necromicon holder because she ACTUALLY has good damage amplificators that come out of herself, also she cant keep the enemy down with just her traps.

Except they'll get away.



Necrobook for hero damage is not viable since they'll just TP out. Right-click BS has basher and MKB to deal with TP's, nuker BS is burst damage so he doesn't care about TP's in the first place, while necro BS gets completely rekt by TP's since they also waste his necro cooldown.

Right-click BS is actually a really good pusher. He has solid DPS steroids which are further amplified by Bloodrage, towers just melt.

Fine, if that is the problem we can have another solution that fits this build

Helm of the Dominator is the item, dominate a centaur and let him break the tp if needed, and also it can be used as an aura to increase necromicon DPS.

Fine Blood can be a good pusher with DPS itens but this does not invalidate the two other points(enemies cannot escape necromicon and necromicon damage is amplified).

Fine, you can be Lycan if you want to be Lycan so much :)
(Note that even Lycan doesn't go necro anymore these days.)

Basically a Lycan that is good against people and not towers, not good but gimmick enough to work