What we want to see in TI4..

sadly some heroes like bloodseeker, spirit breaker, drow and sniper have bad designs and will always be either underpowered or have random values made higher so they will be OP in some situations and useless in others.

i think icefrog would remake them if Dota was still just a custom map, but becouse its such a high profile standalone game he wont do such a thing that quickly.

LoL I'm sorry that I don't have your crystal ball to be able to say with such certainty what will and won't happen in the future. In truth I don't know what will and won't happen in the 120 playoff matches, that's 1200 heroes picked. Think of it in terms of being a bookmaker, would you set the odds of SB not getting picked in the entire tournament at over 1/1200? If you would I'd like to take that bet.

The fact is that not having been picked in such a long long time actually works to his advantage of getting picked up. Simply because it will be a surprise pick. You may be underestimating how much the pro's value surprise strats. You also have to consider the current meta which favours tanky heroes who can fight early. It's not perfect conditions for him but he certainly falls into that category. Finally there's last years example where almost every hero got picked at least once. I think it was maybe 8 heroes not picked?

All of that taken into consideration I certainly would not want to make absolute predictions about any heroes chances. So I stick to my original assertion he's got a slim chance of being picked.

the sad bit is those 1200 picks will all be pretty much like this: Mirana, Lycan, Batrider, AA, Naga Siren, Invoker because thats all pros pick these days

You forgot Tinker :D

nah but seriously the game is far more balanced than it was last year so I would expect the number of heroes not picked up at all to be lower than it has in the past. That has been the trend of past Internationals the pool of heroes not used keeps getting smaller.

I reckon Batrider will be most picked banned though.

Then you dont watch much dota if you think that. The game has never had such variety in the picks.
Last year it was dominated by IO, alc, weaver, bat, visage all gaems.

Exactly, there was always a Alchemist, Windranger, Visage, Batrider in TI3.

My Spirit Breaker statement raised a dispute. I have similar thoughts as manic_e - element of surprise may be a factor that will be more important than lackness of Magic immunity during Charge of Darkness.
There is a huge problem where to put him in lane, though, because I can't see him being a good offlaner, jungler or lane carry. He can't also be a semi-support on tri-lane, because he highly benefits from getting levels early. On mid he would be destroyed pretty easily and left with no last hits and denies, due to his Base Attack Time (1.9 - the worst along with Treant Protector). He is quite slow, but his aura will push the lane, because it also affects creeps. Any engagement from mid to the other lane will be obvious. He has the best base strenght in game (29) and decent armor (5.38), but it's not enough to be effective on solo lane.

Can you show me a situation when Spirit Breaker pick is valid?

Pull for the safe dual lane till level 2, then roam like the crazy SPACE COW you are. Atleast that's how I run him, real fun.

P.S. - YOU HAVE TO TYPE SPACE COW IN ALL CHAT

Want another million dollar dream coil from Puck

Also, one of the most banned heroes right now is Doom

Would also love to see more diverse offlaner picks. Me wanna see some Timbersaw

He does not even scale as a support semi or whatever. He's a ganker and will stay like that forever. I just want the pre 6.72 Spirit Breaker but that will never happen.

I gave this a bit of thought last night. There's a few reasons why he could be a situational pick up but this is all highly situational.

The Teams

I only see two situations where he would be picked up.

1) A team where they have already qualified and are playing a weaker opposition so the match doesn't matter as much. Pure experimentation

2) A team who stand very little chance of winning and pull out a surprise strat out of desperation.

3) Alternatively, some really random pick. If someone had told me last year that Vengeful Spirit would be picked as a 1 position in the grand final I would have thought they were high or something. But crazy **** happens.

The Drafts

Perhaps somewhat surprisingly no stun Doto sometimes happens in pro dota. I don't know about you guys but when I see a Spirit Breaker picked I like to have at least one reliable stun. It really isn't uncommon to not have one of those. Heroes like Tidehunter for example, are you going to expend a Ravage just to interrupt a Spirit Breaker? Say the enemy supports are Ancient Apparition and Enchantress nobody's going to stop a charge or interrupt your combo.

As a counter I still think he's a good pick against split pushers. He's pretty useless against teams that constantly 5 man. As has been said he's a ganker. So I'd pick him if the enemy has perhaps a Tinker mid. I also think he's quite good against other gankers and invis heroes, due to charge of darkness giving vision of their position. So lets say the enemy team has drafted a Clinkz for their 1 position.

So enemy team

Clinkz
Tinker
Tidehunter
Ancient Apparition
Enchantress

Laning

For me the key to this is how you lane mid. The main hero you want for this equation to work is Io. Something like a Spectre, Shadow Fiend, Faceless Void. So your main carry is mid with IO, for this hypothetical I'm going to say Spectre for his global ability. Spirit Breaker takes the safe lane farm, with either a roaming or jungling support depending on who their offlane is. Your offlane doesn't matter that much but lets just say Puck just so the other team really won't see your lanes coming :p.

Build

Black King Bar Aghanims Sceptre Power Treads

The Strat

The laning stage is pretty much explained, just farm up not too much reason for anything else. As the lanes are about to break you want to use an obs ward on the enemy ancients so Spirit Breaker has a good chance at catching out the tinker while he's doing that.

Io and Spiirt Breaker relocate onto Tinker when he begins his split pushes. After relocating you use Charge of Darkness just in case he's too quick for you and manages to blink away. Then just bash to death or ult. EZ kill.

Most of the time you just relocate in ult then use Charge of Darkness if they start to run or if they have a blink. If they have back up you use the Haunt.

So the main difference to how you might play in pubs is Charge of Darkness most of the time will not be your initiation. Initiate with Nether Strike 20 second cool down with the Aghs means you can sometimes get it off twice within the same team fight. This really works with Io, without Io perhaps add a blink to the build. Blink/ULT/Charge. Or perhaps the more pub build of shadow blade.



The dipute, for me, is with statements of opinion presented as fact. For example I can say " Broodmother will not be picked in TI4". That's a statement of fact, since Brood is not available to pick. If F.E.A.R.O had said "I don't think Spirit Breaker will be picked up at all". Then I would have agreed, because it's unlikely. However, he said "Nope he won't get the slightest chance to get even in one match." This is a statement of opinion presented as a fact, a fact that is not true. He's in the hero pool, he can be picked which means he has a chance albeit slight of being picked.

I hope I've shown a situation which could happen where he would be a viable pick. It doesn't have to be likely just within the realms of imagination.