Grim's guide to Viper

Great guide... I normally don't use meka (I am noob so that explains it). I get the normal boots first then go for dragon lance right away., this is give me a more advantageous position when it comes to range. After that I can complete my power threads then go for either S&Y or Butterfly.

I wouldn't get a Radiance on a Viper.. Here is the reason.. A Radiance is a great item on a tanky hero, no doubt, however, the effectiveness of the item comes from how early you can grab it.. A 15 minute Radiance is great.. However, if you wait until 35 to 40 minutes, the damage starts to fall off.. This means, if you want a Radiance, it SHOULD be a first item (Observe the fact that most Radiance carriers like Spectre or Naga Siren or Lone Druid usually rush the Radiance even before they upgrade their boots).. However, with a early-game-squishy hero like Viper, the Mekansm is much more important.. By the time you finish a Mekansm, your Radiance will be delayed so much that it is usually not worth it.. At this point, you'd rather build up your DoT, and go for an Aghanim's Scepter, and start building into more tank..

I like your guide +1
Would you consider getting Radiance? Viper is tank and he will benefit on the DoT from the item.

Agreed..after posting that I played a few games by skipping the drum and going straight for Mek and Agh's. This made a huge difference having the Agh's so much earlier, his ult had much more impact.

I feel Drum of Endurance is more suited for squishy mid game heroes to give them a little more sustain during mid game teamfights. With Mekansm, going for Drum of Endurance isn't needed, and it would only slow down the Aghanim's Scepter. And, Mekansm is such a great item on Viper that I wouldn't forsake it for a drum. Ideally, I'd much rather have someone else build the Drum of Endurance while I focus on getting treads, mek and aghs up asap.

Also, Drum of Endurance's active isn't mandatory, since you have plenty of chasing power with your skill set.

+1 nice guide and well done. This is typically how I play my viper as well. You may want to consider adding Drum of Endurance in there as well. It's a nice item to have a long with Phase Boots if you're ganking from the midlane.

Done!

Thanks for the praise.

Jumping on the bandwagon of praise for this great guide! One suggestion: you may want to post that large comment you wrote into it's own section on the main guide, since there's a lot of good discussion in there, and it's already long enough to merit its own section.

Very well-written. +1 from a 150 game-ish Viper player like me. Covers literally everything about himself.

I disagree. Between Viper Strike and your natural slows, you have plenty of control. You don't need a hex on top of it. Heart of Tarrasque gives Viper significantly more ability to tank. The hex is more suited for heroes that need to burst down their enemies. That isn't Viper's style; you are more of a "chip down the enemies health until they die" kind of hero.

I feel that you should consider adding a hex to the situational items list as its usually a better choice than a heart.

Agreed, added :)



When I said Viper wasn't a good illusion based hero, I meant to say, the illusions don't have as much presence as, say, a Luna's illusions, which gain Moon Glaives and can split push really fast, or a Phantom Lancer's illusions, which can replicate themselves and keep the push going.

With a 2100 item in the build-up, I felt that Manta Style was a risky pickup for the returns it offers. I do agree that the trade-off between a Manta Style and Sange and Yasha is negligible in terms of HP vs armor, but SnY seems such an easier-to-build item compared to a Manta Style.

I think, in the end, it comes down to whether there are enemy heroes with stuns I can disjoint from Manta Style. If there are, I think it is worth the risk. But if there aren't, I feel going SnY is just safer.



Yep, I agree Greater Maim is unnecessary. I had suggested the SnY for the more EHP rather than the maim.



Maxing Poison Attack is highly situational. In most cases, it is suboptimal. Since the change to Poison Attack with the skill having no cooldown since level 1, there is no reason to maximize it over Corrosive Skin, which is a great anti-harassment skill.

The only reason I might max Poison Attack over [{Corrosive Skin]] is if I'm laning against a melee hero (highly unlikely, since no team with half a brain would lane a melee against a Viper), and I'm sure that I'll be under no pressure whatsoever. In that case, maxing Poison Attack for the higher slow % and DoT might be useful.

As for Daedalus, I strongly disagree with the pickup on a Viper. See the last section of the guide for my reasoning.



This is probably one area where I have been going back and forth the most. Phase Boots give the much needed mobility, which in certain scenarios can make the difference between escaping a gank and dying, whereas Power Treads provide the flexibility that allows you to get one more Poison Attack in by switching to int. In the end, I think it depends on where I'm laning. If I'm laning safe lane, I would prefer going Power Treads, since I'm not contesting for last hits, and less susceptible to ganks. In the middle lane, I would go for Phase Boots, to escape ganks, contest runes and get more damage to harass.



Blademail is a great pickup, I agree.

Blink Dagger seems a contradictory item to Viper. You don't have any blink-initiation skills, and the range on Aghs ult is already so freaking huge. Also, Viper Strike + run away is a great escape mechanism, especially once you get the Aghs.