The Most Significant Generalized Criticism of Dota 2

The right items would have to exist merely to band aid the hell out of him at best, as changing him would require too radical of a change....

Lastly, the only person who has made a valid point here so far is Ikati by classifying him as a potential central laner.

Otherwise....


This character requires a partner strictly designed for support to be viable....

I.E. Dazzle, Omni-knight

Treant Protector

etc.


The only answer for him is apparently bottle and wand.

Kyfoid, sorry to say, but your argument is really narrow. You have only been rambling on about the laning phase, but Centaur's true strength lies in ganking and teamfighting. Still, Centaur is great in lane when paired up with a ranged carry and also does really well in trilanes. It's not even funny how many pair-ups allow for a first blood at level 3 or below. Centaur is not made to harass at all, but to sort of "seal the deal" on kills. Harassment is also easily negated by staying back when you are supposed to and letting your ranged carry last hit. Remember that this is a *team game*, and you should always rely on your teammates when playing a semi-support such as Centaur.

On to ganking and teamfighting. Guess what his ultimate is for? That's right, its for the team. You obviously missed out the point that teammates can use the max movement speed to their advantage. Oh, your carry Faceless Void is silenced and is getting slowed by Venomancer in a gank? Pop your ultimate and watch him run. Guess who would like Centaur's ultimate in teamfights? Tidehunter, Magnus, Enigma, Earthshaker, Sand King... There are so many.

All in all, you have touched on none of Centaur's strengths, and your only valid point is Centaur not being able to harass in lane, something he is not meant to do. I believe that you either have to consider the team (its a team game!) or rethink your argument.

By the way, Centaur mid is bad.

EDIT: Centaur has a starting strength of 23. He gains 3.8 strength per level, one of the highest strength gains in the game. Even if you don't build strength items, you can already surpass many heroes that do with levels. To me, return is not used for the damage, but the chance to completely negate the opponent's next attack, which adds up to even more tankiness. So basically, you negate 30% of the oncoming damage, which, combined with your ridiculous amount of strength, allow you to survive extremely long in teamfights, especially with actual health items. Therefor, your strength argument needs to be rethinked.

Reading on, I also realize that you have made a point about Centaur needing mana. Centaur is not a hero centered on mana to spam cast his stomp or stampede. Centaur is more of the "burst initiator" kind of heroes that only need to use their spells once or twice in a teamfight. You shouldn't be spamming stomp at any given moment. Therefor, your mana argument is invalid.

How are 2 choices of item builds, which both have their advantages, bad? Obviously, one of them is the damage build, and the other is the tank build. Giving players only one valid choice in item builds is predictable and boring. Obviously each build has their strengths and weaknesses, but it seems that you want all the strengths and none of the weaknesses. Please change your mindset on DotA, cause its not a good one.

Centaur has the highest str gain of any hero. His return is soo good in the early game as its based on right clicks and not acutal damage. Double edge is a very high damage nuke and stomp is like slardar's crush. It's a pretty good aoe stun. His ulti creates a very good set up oppurtunity. He's a really good utility hero to build things like mek or pipe. However, in CM, he doesn't fit in too well because there hasn't been many strats run with him. Maybe after a few patches, the meta will shift to include him. We said the same thing about tree a few months ago and look at what happened.

From what I understand of this post, Kyfoid wants Centaur Warrunner to be a perfect hero and not a 'torn character', so basically he wants Centaur Warrunner to be a perfect hero with no weaknesses. That would result in a completely overpowered hero, don't you think? Furthermore, if Centaur Warrunner would become no longer become a 'torn character', all other heroes would have to be perfect heroes, meaning all heroes will have to be the same with Centaur Warrunner . In that case, there would be no need for playing Dota anymore since it would become an extremely boring game.

Ever heard of the saying, 'Nobody is perfect?' This also applies to Dota heroes. All heroes are meant to be 'torn characters' and imperfect, because if they were perfect, where's the fun in that?

This further supports my point that you should change your mindset. Just like how heroes should not be perfect, item builds should not be perfect too, but offer their strengths and weaknesses. Obviously many item builds have weaknesses that outweigh its strengths (which is why they are not used). In different situations, certain item builds also work better than others, and this choice can be the deciding factor on whether someone is a "pro" or a "noob".

Maybe try Hood, the one core item on him that you haven't mentioned.

lol.... wut?

Looks like I got this part wrong. Still, since you will be the first available target in teamfights most of the time, your enemies would either attack you and get damaged while your teammates follow up, or they run away and you stampede them down (assuming you initiated with blink). Enemies might even waste their nukes on you and, even if you die, they have no more nukes to use against your teammates and the damage done from the initiation and return will set them up for your own team's nukes.

I have an announcement though.. strangely, I have found the way to to play Centaur Warrunner that best deals with the issues that I mentioned.

A lot of this comes down to examining skills and how they work as you put more skill points in to them.

Stomp and Double Edge are the types of skills that you get what you put in to them, Meaning that only putting one point in to both skills is fine. Stomp starts with 2 second stun and ends with 2.75 stun at level 4, and starts with 100 damage ending on 250. Is a mere 50 damage and .25 extra stun length really that worth it unless you guarantee that you will be hitting a majority of their team with success? No, because as you will see, any team with a head on their shoulder will divide up when he is around, and now your role power is diminished severely.

With double edge, you get what you put in to it as you pay with life equal to the damage, so one point is all that is necessary if you intend on perusing his true role as a strength hero and actually get strength items, not life regen items.(also note the changing mana cost on stomp per level)

Going a max out double edge with Hod is rare unless a majority of their team consists of heroes like Lina.

Most teams have mostly carries, and with double edge being magical and becoming weaker and weaker as the game goes on, it makes way more sense to max out Return first so that you can both farm creeps and combat the enemy.

Considering that double edge does do equal damage to yourself, and you go strength items, its almost questionable if you would want to put any points in to it at all.

And unless you max out stomp as fast as possible in order to get the most damage and effect as a kick start way to dominate, then only 1 point in to stomp is even necessary.

With all that said, the end result ends up becoming a very strange way to play Centaur indeed, which ends up being so viable that you could call it "Pro".

Max out Return, 1 point in to stomp, max out stampede,

All the rest of the points go to stats which further enhance return and stampede, and add a bit more attack speed for playing the warrior style.

Go all strength items, and a Mask of Madness to both farm idle creeps and hunt enemies down to force engagement against your return.

Finally, let's say that you did go the stomp and double edge route...

You would want to go mid lane and start with Wand and Health pots, not just because that is what a melee character needs to do against a potential ranged opponent at mid...

But also because wand allows for multi stomps, and health pots are a fuel for your double edge.

What irks me most about the community here is how most of you rule out the option to put points in stats which can be done at any point of leveling. Most just write it off as not even being a viable option.

So lame.