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Dealing with those with less understanding of the game (in a constructive manner)

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Forum » General Discussion » Dealing with those with less understanding of the game (in a constructive manner) 13 posts - page 2 of 2
Permalink | Quote | PM | +Rep by PeachFuzz » April 23, 2013 5:23pm | Report
My friends and I are all in the Very High bracket, whatever that means. We've all been playing Dota for half a decade, and we know almost every nook and cranny. Even then, we always disagree as to what should be done during games. In fact, the biggest factor in our lost games is that we're not on the same page as to what should be done at given times.

Ignoring my less than serious advice before:

1. Do not assume you are right all the time. You'd be surprised how often you are wrong.

2. It is very helpful to lay out a general plan before the draft, or even right after you drafted. This is good because you get your point across - probably a reasonable point - before people start deviating with their own ideas. Like as soon as Medusa was picked: tell them that the team needs to keep all tier 3s until 45min. If they agree, then calls such as backing up and not fighting are made easier.

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Permalink | Quote | PM | +Rep by DJRolling » April 23, 2013 6:28pm | Report
PeachFuzz wrote:

My friends and I are all in the Very High bracket, whatever that means. We've all been playing Dota for half a decade, and we know almost every nook and cranny. Even then, we always disagree as to what should be done during games. In fact, the biggest factor in our lost games is that we're not on the same page as to what should be done at given times.

Ignoring my less than serious advice before:

1. Do not assume you are right all the time. You'd be surprised how often you are wrong.

2. It is very helpful to lay out a general plan before the draft, or even right after you drafted. This is good because you get your point across - probably a reasonable point - before people start deviating with their own ideas. Like as soon as Medusa was picked: tell them that the team needs to keep all tier 3s until 45min. If they agree, then calls such as backing up and not fighting are made easier.


2. this is the type of thing I do. in SD I will almost always wait for the rest of the team to pick, unless there is an especially fun hero in my pool, then I will ask to play whatever role that hero fills. in all pick (which I rarely play due to this) if I don't just hit random, which I will let my teammates know "hey, i'm going to random" in the loading lobby, i'll spend the whole time allowed worrying about a good hero choice.

the thing about match making is that i'm merely competent at the game, I wouldn't call myself good. I assume I am in the lowest MMR that isn't reserved for those who just started. In my bracket knowing what to do means a lot less, and like I've said, being out played or making mistakes and losing isn't something that gets under my skin. It's the simple things like running in alone and ravaging without saying a word and then complaining about the team not doing anything and letting him die, it's supports trying to last hit or, god forbid, auto attack enemy creeps after repeatedly being asked to stop, it's being told to solo lane a hard support because "me and my friend are laning together" but they picked sniper and drow. Things that have very little with pressing the right buttons or correctly reacting to a situation. These kind of things make me wish I always had 9 others to scrim with, although playing seriously has it's draw backs as well.

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Permalink | Quote | PM | +Rep by Nubtrain » April 27, 2013 4:34am | Report
This post might get a bit lengthy so grab some popcorn and beverage because I'll be pointing out how each player's focus of the game to improve themselves are totally different from another persons.

The general mindset to get better is improving through sheer play, there's nothing better than actual experience in any sort of activity. Although playing countless number of games will definitely give you the experience to figure things out yourself, mindless playing will net you very little compared to knowledge acquired from a source and applying it in an actual game.

That is why sites like Youtube, where many guides to anything can be found are so popular because once you have the knowledge, you can actually apply it instead of going through hundreds of hours to find out about something that works. When you have knowledge, you naturally improve much faster than anybody who plays the game without doing their homework. In a sense, when you have knowledge, you have power.

There are generally three things every player needs to improve in:

Game Knowledge, Mechanics and Individual Skill

There is a video on youtube or dotacinema that explains this very well so if you want a visual aid go for it.

a. Game Knowledge - Once you learn something, you skip the games needed to figure it out yourself but you must apply it in a real game. Whether you fail or not will increase your overall experience with that build, hero, etc. Whether it's item or skill build, team composition, hero's strength and weaknesses, you have to see it for yourself to truly have an understanding.

b. Mechanics - Knowing each mechanic gives you a huge advantage over your opponents. For example, newer players don't know you can use items after using Blade Fury from Juggernaut because many newer players use items effects like Phase Boots first then the ability which in-turn cancels the effect. The player would then have to play more games before finding out by accident that it works after spinning, which also has a tie-in to Game Knowledge.

c. Skill - How you react to any situation is improve through sheer playing of games, the more you play the more you understand the game. Timing of attacks, positioning, reaction time, map-awareness, strategy execution or even how big your balls are is what we call skill-level.

With that in mind you can see why it would seem you're better than everyone else at your tier group. Since you've watched a lot of games, have the general game knowledge through watching streams, you've then applied it in a real game. Players who do all of the above IMO are better than players who have more than 200 games over you.

Think of players who learn through sheer play as lone samurais who taught themselves, you can clearly see the rough-edges with the skill of the blade. The lone samurais base their attacks on sole skill, pure instinct where-else a trained samurai has a much more refined swordsmanship along with techniques or strategies since he learned from a master samurai and has equal or more experience with the blade than a loner. Watch an anime called "Samurai Champloo" and you'll have a sense of what I mean. (:P)

Many new players start off as that lone samurai but later seeking guidance to improve themselves. That is why the competitive scene has a HUGE influence on all skill-levels, you can leap abounds many levels in terms of overall experience.

The main problem is EGO, once players have played enough games and have gone to the a level where they have some of the game knowledge and mechanics in their minds, these players think their individual skill levels they think they have, are inflated in their minds. When you remove the ego and seek to learn more about the game while also playing to actually experience the knowledge you've learned, you will become one of the masters of this game called DOTA.

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