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[HERO] - Sparrow - Chieftess of the Spirit Tribe (Agility, Radiant) -

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Forum » Hero & Item Ideas » [HERO] - Sparrow - Chieftess of the Spirit Tribe (Agility, Radiant) - 7 posts - page 1 of 1
Permalink | Quote | PM | +Rep by Blackgaze » July 16, 2018 4:26am | Report

Blackgaze

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Permalink | Quote | PM | +Rep by Elfansoer » July 16, 2018 7:42pm | Report
Hey, can I implement this? Looks like fun. I'll use Undying as the base hero.

Technical questions:
Skill 1:
  • At which condition it is auto-cast? Frozen Armor auto-casts when an allied hero is being attacked while not having the buff, for example.

Skill 3:
  • What do you mean by 'base damage'? Is it only the hero's base damage (without bonus damages), or the attack's base damage (without additional separate damage instance from abilities/items)?
  • Can it have multiple totems when refreshed?

Skill 4:
  • Correct me if I'm wrong, but with a collision span of 200 per spirits, and 4 spirits per spawn, and with the cross-stitch patterns, it means each line would have 1000 gap, divided equally into 250 units horizontally each. With 400 spirits speed, and 2s spawn rate (per fixed point), there will be 600 units gap vertically. Is this counts as 'small gap'?
  • No offense, but my OCD sense is tingling. It should have 1600x1600 wide spawn point, and a speed of 200 to create a perfect 200 units 'square' gap in the pattern. or 1800x1800 with 225 speed for a perfect 250 units 'square' gap. Just sayin'.

Elfansoer


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Permalink | Quote | PM | +Rep by Blackgaze » July 17, 2018 2:49am | Report
What do you mean implement? As to create the hero concept in game, or use the format for your own hero?

Skill 1 - This was actually a mistake, I should've removed the autocast feature since it couldn't find a wrap-a-round to what target to use upon. Should Skill 2 have one instead?

Skill 3 - Both, it doesn't use bonus damage from items, or buffs from spells or passives (etc). Yes it can be refreshed.

Skill 4 - ... yes.
There's no defending this one, this ability was a bit rushed, My vision does not meant the mathmatics needed for this work, and I just created a proxy stats to get the general idea across. Most of the time I try and get things accurate, but MOTM is a really hard ability to figure out right, there's a reason I don't play Tinker (or mid at all for that fact).

Blackgaze

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Permalink | Quote | PM | +Rep by Elfansoer » July 17, 2018 4:01am | Report
Sooo, I've been implementing hero concepts to be playable in Dota 2 (in Custom Games), and I would like to have your permission to make this. Obviously there will be some differences due to engine capability, but it will be noticed.

Skill 2 could have autocast. Just define at which condition it will automatically cast, and it'll work.

As for skill 3, here's whats. In Dota 2 engine, there are actual attack damage (which also counts some abilities/item effects, even if magical damage, like Void's Bash), there are separate instance damage (a damage which is dealt at the same time the attack happens, like Enchan's Impetus). It is barely noticeable, but they are different. I think it is the first one that should be dealt.

Actually, MOTM's spawn location is pretty much random. So, which one is it? Or I should assume 200-unit gap instead.

Elfansoer


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Permalink | Quote | PM | +Rep by Blackgaze » July 17, 2018 6:49am | Report
Of course you can, it be an honor to see it made (even with proxy graphics).

Your skill 3 explanation might explain why Gyrocopter's Flak Cannon uses Ursa's Fury Swipes in Ability Draft and not other effects, is this also the reason why Winter Wyvern's Winter's Curse doesn't translate certain attack effects on allies? It's likely choice #1 would be what I would decide to, but for your hero example, you can do this. I make hero concepts based on theme and bringing new ideas, I don't what's codeable, and occasionally some spells like Spirit Herd go over my head in how its deployed.

I can't really sum up Spirit Herd's deployment in numbers, I failed that as you've seen.
Maybe this help instead:

XXOXXXOXXXOX
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XXOXXXOXXXOX
OXXXOXXXOXXX
XXOXXXOXXXOX
OXXXOXXXOXXX
XXOXXXOXXXOX
OXXXOXXXOXXX

Blackgaze

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Permalink | Quote | PM | +Rep by Elfansoer » July 17, 2018 7:51pm | Report
If you want technical, I'll give you technical.

Here's some Dota 2 engine which may inspire you to give something creative about attacks.
There are 2 types of attacks: Normal and Instant attacks. Normal attacks happens when you right-click someone, while Instant attacks can only be triggered by abilities/items.

Instant attacks may or may not use :
  • Projectiles, (otherwise it's instant)
  • Attack cooldown, (should it follow attack speed rules)
  • Damage (yes, fake 0-damage attacks exists)
  • Effect on procs (more detail later)
  • Other tags, such as "never-miss" and "ignore-invis"

Despite that, the thing that differs from normal attack is that there are no "OnAttackStart" event, that is, for abilities which procs when someone starts an attack, the instant attacks wouldn't count.

Now, speaking about abilities around attacks, Generally there are some triggers which an effect could happen:
  • OnAttackStart, when someone starts attack animation. Examples: Legion Commander's Moment of Courage attacks or Enchantress' Untouchable slow.
  • OnAttack, when someone has launched an attack (projectile has just launched for ranged). Examples: Troll Warlord's Fervor increasing stack.
  • OnAttacked, when someone receives a successful attack (projectile has successfully landed for ranged). Examples: Axe's Counter Helix procs.
  • ProcAttackFeedback: When someone receives a successful attack, and allowed to proc effects. This differs from above that it may or may not happen for instant attacks explained above. All orb effects and most attack-augmenting abilities happens at this trigger.
  • Other self-explanatory triggers: OnAttackLanded, OnAttackFail, OnAttackAllied.

What effects can happen at those triggers? Virtually anything! (Anything code-able, I guess)

As for Flak Cannon, I guess it uses instant attacks which uses procs, perhaps, since Fury Swipes must use proc effects to happen. Or perhaps it can trigger on just any attack, which Flak Cannon counted in?
I think Winter Curse just use fake attack and deal a separate damage. I think (I don't know)

Skill 4's explanations is getting absurd, eh? How's this: I'll just create what I had in mind about that ability, and let you decide how it should happen later.

Elfansoer


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Permalink | Quote | PM | +Rep by Blackgaze » July 18, 2018 3:46am | Report
OnAttacked sounds more likely for Totem Pole. Unless OnAttack doesn't trigger when attacking/canceling/attacking/canceling (like old axe/centaur days of triggering passives without doing anything). I think Totem Pole is too powerful with the bonuses mentioned above.

Totem Pole's concept was based on Io's Level 25 Attack Tethered Ally's Target, in which a bonus attack is created from the tethered unit triggering it. I wanted to replicate something like this without the bonuses. Totem Pole originally attacked the closest unit, but one unit would suffer too much damage in the wrong position and was re-designed as attacking a random unit in the area, giving an easier chance to fight against the Totem Pole as well.

Blackgaze

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