Juggernaut Build Guide DOTA 2: Do you like free MMR?

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The math about the 2700 dmg is just wrong. You cannot assume that the enemy has 0 armor while you have ac/deso. Usually you just reduce their armor a bit. It should not be the case that they have negative armor at the point where you have agha + deso/ac. Otherwise it is a stomp anyway...

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(8) |

Scrub guide
Do you know the strengh off Jug ? is because he has a 1.4 BAT (you hardly mentioned this in your guide and you should even know what is it) and a Critic that sinergy far better with agility/AS than damage itself.

You are not and you should not be building Aghs just for CD, what if you have an 70 cd ult ? my Euls/Ghost scepter/Glimmer have a far better cd and i am just a sup :0), also jug atacks between slashs, so one more time, AS has faaaaaaar synergy with him, this build of yours only should work in 3 digit mmr where supports does not buy defensive itens AT ALL.

Down Voted

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I just wanted to clear this up. If you know a player on their team has built ghost scepter or euls, DON'T F****ING ULTI THEM UNLESS THEY'RE AROUND THEIR TEAM, or you definitively know the item is on cooldown, because you saw them use it.

Glimmer cape is negligible, sentry wards, gem, dust etc.

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(47) |

Wow mate this comment is so salted it's hard to get through it to the actual point, and it's an important one so let's concentrate on that instead of calling scrubness shall we? :)

Now I do agree that , while it can be good sometimes on Jugg, is not a must-have. Did you check some recently competitive games with him btw, Riotz? You will see that they usually go for either a build that allows you to farm better into late game (Battlefury) or the fighting build, going around things like , and damage items, just to make sure you can dish out damage while also surviving. You say you have no idea why people go for this item, but surely people that are 3k ahead of us and that play as their life job know what they are doing right?

Now I'm not a Jugg player, so I can't help a lot on explaining you why this is almost always better then rush an Aghs, but I'm sure other people here can (including Yellulz, that has a point when he says supports can easily kite you if you go for this build). And still what you said about this being an effective build in low pubs could be right - but do we want to be settling into low pub stomps or to actually get better, more effective builds? :)

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wrote:

I've honestly never had issues with being kited. This will come with map awareness, getting behind your enemy and even using smoke situationally. Not to mention there are situations where engagements are forced, and situations where you might be 2v1, and drop your omnislash with aghs and watch them melt. The sheer strength of having aghs in the super early game is hilariously broken, this is just the way I see it, my personal experience with doing this. People will not immediately recognize that the early aghs allows you to win 2v1 fights with ease and they will force engagements with you and all kinds of stupid will occur.

But as far as aghs overall effectiveness, it does diminish into the late game, so the earlier you get it the better, how early though is purely situational.

Building BF or aghs is a huge point of contention among Juggy players, but Jugg is NOT a hard carry, he will get straight up stomped by a Medusa who built properly, or a Phantom Lancer or a Slark in the late game, so getting battlefury on him in order to farm up his typical carry items, butterfly, manta etc, is futile, because you're going to lose in the late game to most baddies anyway.

What I've found is having the massive stacks of armor reduction, at least makes late game fights immensely easier for your teammates and overall makes the damage output of your whole team better.

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(8) |

wrote:

Sorry chichi :0/, i had to say those harsh things because dotafire has many misinformation guides, also few people know how to theorycraft in dota comunnity, but i will take easy now

So, what the hero has ? is 35% percent critic of 200% damage, comparing to of wk(300% critic with 15% chance) and of PA(15%, 350% critic), we can say that their critic scales far more with Atack damage then Jugg, but jugg also scales far more with AS then PA´s and WK´s critic with Atack speed because he has 35% chance and 1.4 BAT. What does it means ? in the end of the day agility itens such as Difussal Blade , Sange Yasha and that give you Atack speed damage and armor does far more than itens that just gives damage and armor reduction like and ( also i think critics in general dont synergy with armor reduction at all, critics go through it).

This image shows efficience per gold, Mask of Madness is on top because it gives pure Atack speed

https://www.google.com.br/imgres?imgurl=http%3A%2F%2Fi.imgur.com%2F5DDbhXT.png&imgrefurl=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.reddit.com%2Fr%2FDotA2%2Fcomments%2F1iox0w%2Fnumber_of_normal_slashes_during_omnislash_in_dota2%2F&docid=G2Ql231XvCf-zM&tbnid=23pq8IPU3mntNM%3A&w=999&h=577&bih=599&biw=1366&ved=0ahUKEwj5lt-5ypzNAhWBTSYKHWX1DWAQMwggKAIwAg&iact=mrc&uact=8

This graphic shows how Damage scales with levels, aghs and Atack speed, if you pay attention you can see that Aghs scales the same as you add 100 AS plus 3 slashs, so MoM scales the same that aghs but for half of the price, also will help you in and out of the ult

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I have no idea what you're talking about when you say armor reduction doesn't increase critical hit damage? Yes it does, enormously, more efficiently than extra damage, armor reduction is more valuable than direct damage by far in a fight.

This is a guide for pub stomping not competitive play.

Armor is always cheaper than agility, so buying armor will always be more cost effective, Assault Cuirass is one of the most cost effective items in the game, hands down, on any hero, and it's probably by design that a team can only have 1 of them, since the auras don't stack.

Jugg's bat is high as hell, but his damage is abysmal, he doesn't thrive in 1v1 man fights because of bat, or win team fights because of bat, he's not a hard carry, like I said in the guide, why don't you make battlefury? Because he's not a f*cking hard carry, building him for 60 minutes is a recipe to lose.

Mask of Madness is terrible pickup, the bonus attack speed is mediocre, and comes at the cost of reduced survivability, obviously this doesn't matter during your ult, but when your slashes are low and you pop ulti quickly, your mask duration is going to last longer than the duration of your ulti and that's going to make you squishier than you already are. Not to mention MoM got nerfed to hell, it's not an item I'd pick up on any hero now.

Not to mention mask does not scale well at ALL compared to more expensive items with pieces around the same price. I'd rather have a hyperstone than a mask. Sorry fam.

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(8) |

So is the most cost-efficient item you can build on a carry? ... its a 2xMedalion of Courage and a of stats, the item is design for strengh carrys have some way to have armor + AS instead of building agility(that you should since you are agiity anyway), also its just 11% EHP increase, butterfly gives far more than that and far more DPS.

Jugg´s BAT is not high as hell, it one of the lower bat we have in doto, just losing to alchemist , making his Atack speed scales far better, like 100 aditional atack speed would go into ~~59 atack speed with 1.7 Bat, with his 1.4 BAt it goes to ~~72 atack speed.I agree that Jugg should not be built to late game, so make Mid game itens Like Drums,Sange Yasha and so you can have general tankness for early fighiting and damage.

How can be a terrible pick up ? the item is not only core because it is nerfed as hell, also the bonus Atack speed is NOT terrible, it is the most cost-efficient dps as hamster said, your critic and omnislash high scales with it, also the damage amplifier is overlooked, it is just a big deal to nukes and then you have and your spin to this. Also it does not scale well late game( actually it does as nukes are not a big thing and it still gives you a lot of AS and MS even late), but anyway Jugg is not meant to be build later anyway

Also sorry for not being polite at first :p, comments like mine that cancerous the entire dota comunity

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Mask was nerfed so bad, like 8-9 patches ago that I don't see it as a viable pick up anymore. And that damage amplification has a huge impact on just when fighting nukers, but heroes that hit hard and have damage block, because the extra attack speed isn't going to help you at all in those situations.

I don't think I'll ever pick of MoM, is it cost effective in the early game, yes, is it a good item? No. There are too many negatives to getting it. It's a wasted slot by 30 minutes imo.

Before it got nerfed it was one of the best items in the game if not the best. When you talk about the attack speed bonus it adds to your ultimate though, that's not going to make a very big difference, why? Because your normal attacks are few and far between early game, and their damage is abysmal, the same reason I don't build battlefury. Jugg hits like a feather until the super late game or until you have lots of armor reduction.

When I build a hero I look at total hp versus total armor. If your HP is over 2,000 you should focus on getting straight armor. Assault Cuirass is the single most cost effective armor item you can buy. The armor reduction adds a good deal of dps on top of the additional attack speed. I'm not sure if it adds the same amount of dps as butterfly, but it definitely adds more armor and the auras are a huge advantage to your team.

The other benefit to having desolator and assault cuirass is split pushing, because you will melt towers.

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(8) |

Are you counting sub patchs too ? :p, because it was the most op item in 6.83 and core in almost every carry of that meta, its been 4 patchs since the item has been nerfed, also it was buffed last patch by 5% damage reduction, so your information is not valid enough, also the item synergy with Skadi that is a must build on jug later on.

Even if it is a sub tier item, is better than aghs, also i would prefer building Sange Yasha for every purpose of the hero

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Sange and Yasha is one of the least cost effective items in the game and one of the worst and most common pick ups on Jugger.

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(8) |

wrote:

Sange and Yasha is one of the least cost effective items in the game and one of the worst and most common pick ups on Jugger.

So is Assault a high cost effective item and Mask of Madness and Sange Yasha low cost effective ? you just lost your argument few comments ago, if its so bad then why it is so picked up 5k mmr and on the pro scene ( and assault andd Desolator are 1k tier itens on jug)

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People get SNY because it's cheap and its parts are cheap. It's not cost effective at all. Gold versus stat gain it's garbage.

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(3) |

@Riotz OF course your Jugg hits like a feather when you rush smthng like aghs and contine with AC... that's obvious.

Just to mention, that aghs is just bad pickup when enemy possibly makes manta xD...

Seriously, there are plenty of nice Jugg builds, why making up something new and worse?

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if you don't believe SnY is cost inefficient garbage read this http://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=296744021

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(89) |

Now that the proc chance was buffed to 30% there's absolutely no argument to dismiss as a bad item.
When you take into account the 16% additional movement speed and the Skadi-like slow, it's the best chasing item in the game, and by far.

The guide you linked dates back from 2014. It's completely outdated, since SnY was buffed a ton since then, and drum got massive nerfs since then. There is no alternative to SnY now, it's the only item to do what it does.

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(49) |

Yet it's still purchased. That discussion seriously undervalues the movement speed of SnY on some heroes. I speak primarily of , but it definitely applies to Yuggernaut. Phase boots + SnY makes him incredibly adept at chasing down heroes and the maim is a very, very potent slow on melee heroes. Not only that, the speed assists with farming, it has a good buildup and is an all-round safe choice.

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Building jugg as a right clicker defeats the purpose of jugg. If I was going to build a right clicker I'd just play medusa or void, or any actual hard carry... Make sense?

I get deso after aghs not ac. Read the guide, the net gain from deso is higher than any other item jugg can buy when you combine the bonus right click/critical damage and slash damage. Picking up a desolator after aghs gives your ultimate a total of 3,834 damage that goes through spell immunity. That's like having 3 aghs laguna blades. It's an absolute no brainer to pick up aghs and deso.

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(43) |

Yes why'd you want to build a hero with 1.4 bat and the best crits in the game as a rightclicker? xD

Can we get your dotabuff or yasp so we can see your amazing results with this godlike build?

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(8) |

This, Aghs is just a bad pick, actually manta is the least item that counter , buy maelstorm or BF, the problem is when enemy does euls, you will need Abbyssal at least to kill the target

Also ghost scepters are your worst enemy so Difussal is at least situational

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I'd agree diffusal is situational on jugg, I've needed to build it though.

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(89) |

Jugger doesn't scale better with attack speed than he does with damage. If you don't understand that then you don't understand how BAT works.

His crit increases his DPS by 35%. His BAT increases his DPS by 21% compared to the standard 1.7 BAT.

This means that it works as if he has a 63% DPS increase compared to another hero.

However, he still doesn't have a damage steroid. Just a multiplier to his overall DPS. So he scales as well with damage as he does with attack speed. There is no asymmetry between the two.

gives more damage to his ult for the cost because it's the most cost-efficient DPS item in the game, that's it. This has nothing to do with the fact that it's attack speed. Jugg is perfectly efficient, nothing wrong with it.

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(8) |

How so ?
You are saying that critics dont scale better atack speed and Damage depending on their percentage ? build 5 Moonshard with PA Then :P

Seriusly test test wk and juggs critic, with the same damage(~150) and 5 moonshards, jug gives almost 500 damage more than WK in 5 seconds, i would post results but this would be offtopic.

Do you think jug does not scales better with Atack speed ? come on he atack between slashes, have a 35% critic and a 1.4 BAT, also he is a natural holder of Sasha Yasha and Basher, saying that is like saying does not scales with damage

But anyway, if jug dont scales with atack speed just build then :o)

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(89) |

scales with damage and not attack speed because of , not her crit. Her W gives her an attack speed steroid (so she needs to build damage to balance it), and it only works for 4 hits. So a bit like , she needs to be built to kill her targets in 4 hits, so only damage matters. Attack speed isn't wasted on PA, but it's much less useful.

A crit is just a percentage increase to your DPS, since every hit is multiplied by the crit multiplier. Regardless of whether you build damage or attack speed, your DPS will be multiplied by the exact same multiplier.

Jugg deals more damage in 5 seconds than WK because he has better BAT. You're going to get the exact same result in percentage if you buy 5 s instead of moonshards.

PA scales almost only with damage. Jugg scales with BOTH damage and attack speed, and not one more than the other.

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(49) |

Repping you for the perfect explanation of how BAT and damage steroids work. That was a work of art.

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(47) |

Thank you, see this is exactly what I wanted to see here, a nice theory crafting discussing about this subject, which apparently is a controversed one :) Keep it up!

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