Weaver / Windrunner Builds Feedback.

Here's my final versions of Weaver and Blade Runner builds.

Open for criticism, discussion and feedback.

Detailed descriptions coming "sometime later next year".

UPDATED! 09.05.2012.
UPDATED! 10.17.2012.
Added "Witch of the Wilds", qop forest build.
Finalized BR and Weaver builds.

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http://www.dotafire.com/dota-2/guide/talenroks-sigourney-weaver-1705

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http://www.dotafire.com/dota-2/guide/talenroks-shadow-blade-runner-1709

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http://www.dotafire.com/dota-2/guide/talenroks-witch-of-the-wilds-1708

Weaver's items: Radiance only within the first 20 mins. Afterwards it's not that great of a late game item. Ethereal would be useless as he only has one main spell which doesn't really go well with his auto-attack potential. Dagon, really? The build you have for Weaver is what you would want on a Nyx Assassin as he is a burst damage hero, whereas Weaver is generally needed more as a carry. If you used all that gold, you would be able to get a MKB and Daedalus which would deal more damage and ultimately better late game outcome.

Windrunner items: Only if the team requires you to semi-carry. You usually only get Aghanim's for WR IF you are getting an Attack Modifier item, as it becomes pretty useless. Even with the Attack Modifier, it wouldn't give you the damage which you would like to deal compared to an Orchid of Malevolence or Scythe of Vyse. Can't complain about the Linkens, MKB or Shadowblade as I tend to get those items anyways. BUT again, only if your carry isn't doing so well and your team requires a semi-carry.

Great line ups with the item build and skill builds, but remember to state that you should play by this build if your team requires you to do so, or you have enough skill to achieve it, or you'll have a very angry team asking you why you bought carry items instead of support items.

Yeah I know about radiance.. it was there as a "joke". The game will end before you get it in this order (5lvls of dagon first!). Butterfly too.
Ethereal + Dagon = great burst. Nyx Assassin is meh... Not maneuverable enough.
Besides my Weaver is built for the hit'n'run play style. Not for being a carry.
It's just my vision of this hero, it's not my fault that burst damage items and their cost effectiveness considered to be a joke in dota community.



I never consult with my team about such things. Being selfish is good for your psyche, or so I heard ^^. It's a team game sure, but not when you go through solo matchmaking. At least not in my vision of it.

Yeah Aghanim's sucks. Just thought 15 sec cd would be really fun. But the amounts of mana and regen that is needed are too ridiculous, so I've replaced it with Daedalus.



Anyway, thanks for the feedback. Gonna post updated builds today.

@Talenrok

I agree. If you ask what role your team wants they'll just tell you to support. When it comes to crunch-time and no one else is to blame for the team's pitfall, who do they blame? The support. It's better to be selfish - as you said - so you can avoid such things.

I'm always selfish and go for random and take all the kills, even if I play Lina or any other hero, I'm still playing as a carry.

I only play support if I have a five man team.

I try to avoid supporting unless I'm in a five man team as well. You get hounded excessively in pubs if you support even if your doing everything right such as planting wards, counter warding, and so on.

Well I'm glad someone agrees with me ^^.

Updated my first post.
Sadly there was no option, in the hero builder.. to pick different levels for items that can be upgraded. So it looks like I'm totally going for five lvl 5 Dagons.

Maybe I've just been lucky, but I don't usually have trouble getting blamed as a bad support. And even if I get that one dumbass going "OMG Sefi you were halfway across the map and I was dying because I ran into tower why didn't you save me??" the rest of the team tends to back me up.
What I hate is when we request someone who picked a versatile hero like Windrunner to do certain role we need on the team, and they want to rambo carry. Playing a support hero and refusing to support if it's needed of you is never the answer, even if now and then you'll get *****ed at for something that isn't your fault.

I digress.

I instinctively don't like these builds because they're different from what I know works and what's standard. And there's Dagon. Man do I hate Dagon.
Do you maybe have any replays you can show us with these builds in action? Preferably against teams who actually know what they're doing and aren't just getting roflstomped.

I think an E-Blade on Weaver is an interesting concept though. It would be easy for him to farm it very early...I might at least try that in a bot match or something.

I find it very interesting that you like a Mjolnir on QOP, whereas you don't mention it on Windrunner, the only one of the three I personally think is the best carrier of one in this kind of build. I've seen some sick windrunners rocking that Mjolnir.

I can simply never agree with a Necronomicon on a QOP, especially not core. But like I said, I'd be happy to watch some replays where it works and why.
I do approve of maxing Q first. No one EVER suggests doing that and it nets you so many early kills.

Well that's the thing.. You see, those "rambo carries", they play a different game. Different in a way that they care only about their own performance (well at least that's true for me). And how to improve it.
And let's not forget that in pubs you can't really plan anything or count on anyone. Even if you do 4-man party, you still get one random. And that one guy may or may not share your views.

You said it exactly right.. Instinctively. Instincts always tell us to stay away from different and unfamiliar. But do you really need to blindly follow those instincts? They are useful for one thing... survival. And obviously there's no danger coming at you from a bunch of pixels on your screen, right?

Dagon. It is a Magic Burst Damage item. What is there to hate?
I buy Ethereal Blade because of it's synergy with Dagon. There's no real reason to take it on Weaver otherwise.

"against teams who actually know what they're doing and aren't just getting roflstomped."
I don't know.. How often do you have such games that is not "roflstomp"? I've noticed a tendency though: if it's my team that gets stomped - people will blame that "Dagon Weaver guy". With or without a real reason.

Yeah.. Mjollnir Windrunner sounds fine too. Even if her ulti already gives her max attack speed - so I prefer to build up damage instead. Then again ulti has 60sec CD - unless you go for Aghanim.

Necronomicon. Well it's just a fun item, I like it.. and I use it. That's how all my builds are made. As long as they make sense to me - it's fine. If not - I modify them. For instance all my builds were modified many times. Doesn't mean they are now the best and your "final solution"... And I'm not trying to "sell" them as such.
Works as intended.. for at least one person. Isn't that enough?