Queen of Pain: Ace of all roles.

interesting guide/s especially the support one.ive done a support qop even before reading this.have you put this up on steam cloud? +1 dude,u deserve it.

I'm sure its viable, but you wouldn't need it, you have Blink and you're a ranged hero.

With Orchid or Scythe of Vyse and Daedulus and MKB you do a sufficient amount of damage. A BKB instead of a Linken's may be situational as well.

Thank you, sir. :)

A'ight. I'll test it out, and update it on my build, as soon as I get convincing results.

There's a question, is Lifesteal, on any terms, a viable item for Queen of Pain, at any stage?

Sando already brought up all the same concerns I had, and as he said, the comments were a quite rude. Although I don't agree with everything, you have a well presented and written guide and provide the standard build as the cover build. As far as I'm concerned this deserves an upvote.

+1

Edit: In the carry build, an early Orchid is preferred.

Yes, Jungling with a Queen of Pain, purposely, for the cause of Jungling, is a bad idea, which I would agree on. Jungling is the 'Third alternative' on [Queen Of Pain]]. Going with the carry is something I wouldn't recommend, mostly, a ShadowFiend would prefer mid, over a Queen of Pain, and there're two guys going bot, and you're left with a carry. In such scenario, the best option to deal with it is Jungling. It's just an 'Alternative'. I would always prefer the Mid role over any other role, for it's Queen Of Pain's rightful position, in the hero composition.

I like your idea of going A.S first. I did that last game, worked pretty well for me; and Veil of Discord is an item included in my Extension build. I wouldn't consider it 'Core', though. A Jakiro, Lich or Sand King would provide a good effect to buy it, otherwise, for alone, Queen of Pain, it seems like a waste. Very under-rated, yet effective item choice.

Well fair enough, you can jungle like that...but it's not terribly efficient compared to a "proper" jungler, and one enemy jungle ward can potentially screw you. The bigger issue for a hero like QoP (and my pet hate, Jungling Batrider) is that you have a great laning hero, horrible for the opposition to be against...and you're wasting them in the jungle?

I accept QoP isn't as item dependent as some other heroes (i.e. proper carries), she's still useful early-mid game even with very little, and she can recovery-farm pretty quickly. I think the issue can be that you've missed your main "window of opportunity" then, and struggle to make an impact on the game like you can if you get off to a really good start. As a semi-carry QoP is all about levelling/earning from ganks, and then doing a bit of farming/pushing inbetween.

Linken's Sphere vs Aghanim's Scepter is situational, generally I'd pickup the AS first as it massively boosts your team fight ability, and means you can use your ulti for ganks on occasion too. Linken's is for when you're against heroes with a lot of CC, single target silences etc - e.g. Clinkz with Orchid Malevolence, or Bane. You should also consider rushing a sheepstick first - it's a great ganking tool and it does a lot for your mana pool and right click too. Depends on if the game is farm/gank heavy, or team fight heavy. All 3 of them pretty much sort your mana problems though.

Dagon gets a lot of stick as an item as some players get them purely to kill steal and annoy everyone, but it does work on heroes with a lot of burst damage (including QoP) if you can get it early enough, and there are some squishy enemy heroes. Don't bother otherwise. And don't upgrade it!

Alternatively, get a Veil of Discord, it's a little cheaper, gives you good protection/stats, and 25% more magic damage on it's active - it does a lot, lot more for your team fight, especially if you have other nukers on the team.

Thank you for appreciating my efforts, to begin with.

Jungler, yeah, to pull it off, you need to be specific about it. Nope. Not 'Pulling to the creep waves', at all. Do you know the 'Nature's Prophet' trick, the high ground trick in the Dire? Well, Queen of Pain can just blink up to the high ground & auto attack, while getting no damage in return, but, on the side, she needs to stack the easy & rune camp as possible. For that, you need a Tango, to cut down a couple of trees. And then, as soon as you have a couple of levels, spamming Scream of Pain can ensure you get rid of that waves, to get a load of money. This trick can be done for heros like: Luna, Magnus, Storm Spirit (Altough, for S.S, you have to somewhat pull, a couple.) And get a Soul-Ring or Bottle (Need to Bottle-Courier), either of them, to ensure you have the regen.

About Dagon, yes, that's completely true. Dagon is a ton waste of money. I go Dagon, sometimes, just because I have the Null Talisman and I am too much of a miser to sell it in half gold. Upgrading it, is quite a waste, although, if you're going pub, you can combo up-soloing heros repeatedly, after a quick-dagon. This won't work in an organized clan-match, though. I like your opinion about not upgrading the Dagon. I actually used to end up wasting 8,000 Gold in Dagon, and couldn't keep up my mana-hp together, since I couldn't farm up my Linken's Sphere.

Yes, Q.O.P is not Item-independent, but if you're going as a solo-offlane, you hardly have any access to farm, but it's way better than an offlane semi-carry. Q.O.P has her nukes. She can farm up the gold anytime she wants, while non-escape carries cannot, I feel. I've been defeated on the mid, a couple of times, very badly, around 1/4th cs, compared to the other person, but I still ended up achieving more than he could, by ganking the lanes, and keeping my farm up, later on. If she doesn't get her items quickly, except a bottle, she still has a lot up her sleeve, unlike a ShadowFiend who is extremely item dependent.

I can't cope up the Mana Regen with just the bottle, that's the reason I go for an early Linken's Sphere. Although, that being said, I have observed that good Queen of Pain players do not need a ton of regen. They manage it by consistently keeping a watch & not wasting mana, which I do.


One thing I would like your suggestion on: I personally play the 'Bottle-P.T-Linkins-Scepter-Dagon-Hex. Should I go for Linkins first, or AS? Which would be more helpful for me?

Some very harsh comments so far, while I don't agree with everything in this guide, it's very nicely written and presented - kudos to you Az7y.

I think you get across the jist of how to play QoP pretty well, but there are a few things I'd pull you up on:

- Jungler (!?), don't really see how this can be done efficiently without a lot of creep pulls.

- Although she can just about work as a lane support, personally I'd only pick QoP as a mid or off-lane solo. She really needs fast levels to work.

- Never (!), upgrade a Dagon. QoP can potentially run one (would still rather see an Aghanim's Scepter or a Scythe of Vyse to be honest), but 1300 gold for 100 more nuke damage and 2 intel is a complete waste.

- I wouldn't say QoP is item independent. Sure, she's not a carry, but to be effective she needs to have enough health and mana to get in close, get off her combo, and survive long enough to escape.

- Mana regen, don't really see how you're coping with just a Bottle?

- Against better players you may well need to look more at early stat/damage boosting items. You can't afford to get out lasthit early on in mid.

Morning, Magicmrel; I understand your question, and you're quite observant. I have yet not finished updating my guide, I am currently working on it, since a couple of hours; also, the offlane-Q.O.P is pretty commonly seen in local European DotA, although it's currently out of the metagame; if you need a more item dependent mid, since Queen of Pain has great escape, as well as benefits from levels, rather than farm on the mid, she can potentially solo-side lane. Queen of Pain can do Jungle as well, I have succeeded with the Jungle Queen of Pain several times. She can farm level 6 within 7 mins in the Jungle with considerable farm using specific pulls & tactics. The Full-Support build is not out of option, since she is not that item dependent, and hence, can ward effectively, if there is no other support. I will write an explanation of all the roles she can play. The only possible role she cannot play is the 'Tri-Lane support', as she needs to be leading on levels.

I'll be finishing up with my guide within a couple of days. I would like to have your feedback. :)

I'm a little confused why you say she is 'queen of all roles' in the guide title, when she's really only got a single role to play in the game? I mean, why wouldn't you want to have her mid, played as a ganker?

She seems like a terrible carry, support, solo-long-laner, and jungler.....

Your comment was not very informative, I would like to know further about my mistakes, instead of plain raw attempt of mockery.