[6.87 Lion] Ganking Mid & Lane Support

I like the guide. However I really don't mind getting tranquils on the mid lion, he's pretty squishy so having the extra regen is actually really nice.

I've found a lot of success with midding support heroes which offer more in the early to mid portions of the game, especially Lion because with high levels early on he can shut down one person pretty effectively. As the meta recently is really fight intensive making the midder a carry/farming role is really weak right now IMO and the mid hero needs to be helping out quite a bit.

I had pretty good success with Pugna, especially with how you can put the ward wherever you want now (!), Shadow Shaman, Skywrath Mage, Rubick, Leshrac (I actually think he's still super strong) and Shadow Demon. They all offer a lot early to mid game and can even do well with rough starts. Also with the influx of Windranger players Pugna, Lion and Shadow Demon all kind of dump on her with some decent levels.

Special mention goes to Pugna really, he's an absolute beast, you really should try him.

I think that's absolutely fine. The builds always depend on matchups. If you're against aggressive offlaners then going 2-1-2 provides all the harassment, protection for your carry, and sustainability that you'd need.

I like this guide. Concise but helpfull. Good job, +1!

item builds are always dependent on matchups, metas, and money.

i've played 200+ games as lion, and have bought an e-blade maybe... once? better situational items than that.

i'd go orchid or scythe over an e-blade.

the mek is also something that i've fallen out of favor for. any build of lion benefits from a blink dagger. you're right that the mek is mana intensive now, but you should always be maxing mana drain second so you shouldn't ever have mana problems.

depends on the situation... if you are against a pair of heroes that a level 2 mana drain would benefit you over the damage, then by all means. it also depends if you think your mid will be ganking your lane at all... the extra stun duration and damage would mean guaranteed kills. but if you think it'll just be you and the carry, the spamming of mana drain and a level 2 stun might be all that's necessary both for harass, sustain, and survivability.

Mekansm might be bad pick-off for support lion since Lion's skill set is already mana expensive Blink Dagger is cheaper than Mekansm and more viable to a roaming support. Maybe let Junglers do the job for Mekansm thingy. Why not add Ethereal Blade, Ghost Scepter and Scythe of Vyse in Situational specially in Late Game if time permits. Good guide btw.

depends on laning matchups. as i said, the current meta is solo offlaners... so you shouldn't have to worry about so much harrassment from traditional tri-lanes. in that situation, you are much safer spamming even just a level one mana drain every time it's on cooldown to keep the offlaner at bay.

but it really is hero dependent. on whether i go Q-E-E-Q-W-R or even E-Q-E-Q-W-R if i know that we aren't going for a first blood (remember that lvl 1 Q is only 60 damage).

as a support tho, one point in hex at some point early is always important as your first job is to get your carry out of trouble.

Great Lion guide! +1 from me.

Also, what do you think about getting 2 levels of Mana drain before hitting level 6 as a lane support?
I personally always do that, because I think a proper mana sustain is better than a level 3 stun with a higher mana cost.

Thanks in advance!

thanks for the 'wisdom' good sir. haha. i should probably revise my guide to specify a different builds based on different situations, not just the build based on an arbitrary role you're settle into.

this guide was written as a 2 and a 4 position (ie mid or roaming/jungling support). now lets talk about the support builds:

in a dual lane v dual lane (or even dual v solo): you're supporting your carry, obviously... but doing so means kiting your opponent out of lane, and helping him survive if in trouble. kiting can be done not only thru your ranged attacks, but also with Mana Drain. However, doing so against heroes that have stuns themselves? You're gonna get insta locked down and focused. adjust your 2v2 build based on what the opp has. active stuns? skip two points of mana drain for a point in hex. no stuns? get double mana drain and kite him hard out of lane and spam your earth spike. i dont believe that many dual lanes are built for kills, rather a steady progression of levels and farm into the mid game.

in a tri lane v tri lane: you are supposed to be killing your opp. Kiting is fine after they've recovered, but you're supposed to be killing your enemy. here you NEED both disables in order to focus down that one opp hero (support usually) to get that hero advantage. maxing your Earth Spike first with at least a point or two of Hex is crucial. The difference between one and two points of Hex though early game is negligible. So i'm still going to be partial for mana drain. Probably a build of Q, W, E, Q, Q, R, Q for a tri lane. This gets you both disables early, which is ideal since you'll be shy on sharing exp in a tri lane.

and yes, the third build is just what DotaBuff has for the month. That's the most popular build with a 7.31% build rate, and a 64.8% match win rate. take it with a grain of salt. that's all skill levels.

I just noticed your 3rd skillbuild is a dotabuff statistic. What is popular and what is efficient are not the same thing. I started playing lion because I thought mana drain was broken good... 4 second channeling time for 70 mana at level 1 and then continuing to level it stopping you from getting other skills is quite hard to justify.

The dotabuff looks at all statistics. Looking at high level statistics of lion plays, you will find a large majority of times mana drain isn't skilled at all. That is more because in higher level skilled games you wont see lion unless there is a Weaver or Puck or similar hero who is countered by hex on the enemy team.

I will say as I say in all lion guides: Mana Drain is not worth it on a support lion.

And to elaborate, as I always do... If you are in a dual lane or tri lane, you are usually against a dual lane or solo lane (or tri lane in really high level play).

In the early game, when you have a hero advantage and a hero who has multiple disables, your highest chance of getting a kill or protecting an ally in danger is to use disables to their fullest abilities. Maxing Earth Spike} is obviously a priority, as that is a straightforward way to look at most heroes. An area of effect nuking stun.

So, you can choose then, get mana drain to give you a higher rate of mana regen, or you can start maxing hex, because at level 1 and 2 it is more-or-less not worth casting.

Generally as a support, you won't be getting many levels or farm. If you are playing support lion, you will probably spend a lot of time out of lane. So, choose. Hex or Mana drain.

I choose hex because, well, hex is literally the reason you even pick lion.

At that point when you finally are getting levels beyond your points, you now choose Mana drain or Stats. Since you are probably under leveled and underfarmed, and need to stay alive against enemy caries and burst, stats is usually the go to option.

You can argue you can use mana drain to make it so that enemies don't have mana. In a lot of situations, though, if you just got hex you could, you know... kill the enemy.

In a solo vs solo lion, which almost never happens anymore, mana drain is really good because most mid heroes cast spells to last hit, and it mitigates the need for a bottle.

That is my 2 cents. Agree. Disagree. I don't care. I play #5 lion a lot personally and find that the strength in the hero is getting to level 7/8/9 and being able to disable enemy heroes for massive amounts of time while also doing respectable damage.