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I keep dagon at level one unless it is already clear that you have a (very) significant gold and level advantage (say you are level 11/12 and their supports are 5/6) in which case an upgraded dagon plus a death pulse almost guarantees kills.
I also have found myself staying away from a dagon and buying a quick drums more often now just in general.
How about Bloodstone as core extension instead of heart? Nice HP boost as well and makes the mana-discussion obsolete. Also it is safer to build than heart and offers some room for flexibility. For example if someone finds it necessary you could go for arcane boots first and then disassemble them into soul booster and go for phase boots and then finish bloodstone. Or, if you feel you are snowballing hard you can stick with the soul booster and instead of finishing bloodstone you can go still straight for heart.
@Smith. Radiance is better suited as an early item for carries to allow them to farm better, and is a lot of money that you need to save up which really harms your early game. Necrolyte doesn't need/nor should they be afking farming and the aura already gives the blink disable. It isn't awful but I believe their are better items, especially for that price.
@Mirror Yeah waiting on that heart causes you to plateau and possibly let others catch up in farm and stop your money. I agree both Drums or mek are good secondary choices, I really like drums for its stat and ms bonus. This build is made for a rather snowballing game in which you can afford to skip a mid tier item or two to jump to a bigger one early.
In regards to second post, I was unfamiliar with the formatting of the guide to include links, thought it was [] instead of . I feel I get the main strengths and reasoning of my build across in what I have. I spent a decent amount of time on this and feel it is coherent and gives sound reasoning. I'm not going to spend 3 more hours to get in 3 more solidly written and thought out chapters. This maybe doesn't spoon feed you the info as a total beginner needs but I feel competent players will appreciate it. Just because it's longer doesn't mean the guide is immediately better. I personally generally will skip a lot of chapters in the longer guides myself.
@Lancer I don't get arcane boots cause I find sadist provides enough mana regen on its own. Also if you are playing mid ideally you have at least one or two other supports/ arcane holders who can pick it up for your team. I prefer phase boots because you can run through waves to land your nuke easier. Without the extra ms boost when phased, and needing to go around creeps, it can be difficult otherwise. One of the worst upgrades of Aghs is on Necrolyte. It is a percentage damage remova. It is statistically proven (i forget source) that a dagon blast when ulting does more damage unless they have a really high hp level. I would only consider scepter if the enemy has some really high hp str heroes such as a huge pudge, centaur huskar etc. That is the only time the % removal benefits you. Buying scepter also semi early gives you no advantage due to it providing nothing more than mediocre stats and only slightly benefitting your ult which is on a pretty decent sized cd. Even a dagon for example gives you a 400 damage nuke that you can use when your ult is down, and it can give you many kills if you get it early. If you don't like dagon consider getting an early drums, mek or euls.
@Peppo I agree a mek or atos or something else would be an easier build up and give you an earlier benefit. Both are solid pickups, everything is situational too.
A nice build, but it sure can use more color and style, along with a bit more specific info on his playstyle. And as it was said earlier, you should use itemname instead of [itemname] to make a link, like this: Necrolyte.
Other than that, it sure looks like something i will try when i get to play him, +1.
On Necro his elit is his ulti is 340 mana and dagon is almost 200 mana. Even his weakest skill is 185 mana. Arcane boot do no heal enough. The other problem with getting arcane is you do no get phase boots which I learned are REALLY effective.
On a technical stand point the guide lacks color and is a wall of text. It is also short when compared to its competitors on the site.
I have looked a long time to make Necro a viable hero and this just might be it.
I concede to your point on scepter, but I stand by Arcane Boots. What about the situation where there is a prolonged team battle and there are no creeps to last hit? You can't always rely on Sadist for mana, you need an additional source. ALL of Necros skills are mana hungry (including Dagon).
I agree with Mirror, you should try to get another item before the Heart, usually Mek. However, I don't see Heart as a standard item on Necrolyte. There are other cheaper items that provide sufficient hp and hp regen.
I'm pretty sure he doesn't get Aghanim's Scepter because it gives poor benefits compared to the price: the upgrade of the ultimate is considered barely noticeable or useless for getting kills with Reaper's Scythe (you would get the majority of them without it, anyway); if you want stats go for a Drum of Endurance.
Also, Arcane Boots would be a waste of money after you get your second point on Sadist: just get a last hit and watch your mana pool refilling in a bunch of seconds.
I agree with Mirror, you should try to get another item before the Heart, usually Mek. However, I don't see Heart as a standard item on Necrolyte. There are other cheaper items that provide sufficient hp and hp regen.
Well I tried this in game. I first went mid, got may kills on there invoker. After that I ganked a bit and got more kills. There were two problems I faced however. The first was cold snap+WD ulti, not much you can do about that. The other was the long climb to a reaver. During that climb the other team moved as a pack so I got less kills and my combo started to fall off so I had less impact I might suggest getting something like a drum or mek before a heart because I could not get it in time even thought I have almost 7 kills in 15 min.
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I also have found myself staying away from a dagon and buying a quick drums more often now just in general.
@Smith. Radiance is better suited as an early item for carries to allow them to farm better, and is a lot of money that you need to save up which really harms your early game. Necrolyte doesn't need/nor should they be afking farming and the aura already gives the blink disable. It isn't awful but I believe their are better items, especially for that price.
@Mirror Yeah waiting on that heart causes you to plateau and possibly let others catch up in farm and stop your money. I agree both Drums or mek are good secondary choices, I really like drums for its stat and ms bonus. This build is made for a rather snowballing game in which you can afford to skip a mid tier item or two to jump to a bigger one early.
In regards to second post, I was unfamiliar with the formatting of the guide to include links, thought it was [] instead of . I feel I get the main strengths and reasoning of my build across in what I have. I spent a decent amount of time on this and feel it is coherent and gives sound reasoning. I'm not going to spend 3 more hours to get in 3 more solidly written and thought out chapters. This maybe doesn't spoon feed you the info as a total beginner needs but I feel competent players will appreciate it. Just because it's longer doesn't mean the guide is immediately better. I personally generally will skip a lot of chapters in the longer guides myself.
@Lancer I don't get arcane boots cause I find sadist provides enough mana regen on its own. Also if you are playing mid ideally you have at least one or two other supports/ arcane holders who can pick it up for your team. I prefer phase boots because you can run through waves to land your nuke easier. Without the extra ms boost when phased, and needing to go around creeps, it can be difficult otherwise. One of the worst upgrades of Aghs is on Necrolyte. It is a percentage damage remova. It is statistically proven (i forget source) that a dagon blast when ulting does more damage unless they have a really high hp level. I would only consider scepter if the enemy has some really high hp str heroes such as a huge pudge, centaur huskar etc. That is the only time the % removal benefits you. Buying scepter also semi early gives you no advantage due to it providing nothing more than mediocre stats and only slightly benefitting your ult which is on a pretty decent sized cd. Even a dagon for example gives you a 400 damage nuke that you can use when your ult is down, and it can give you many kills if you get it early. If you don't like dagon consider getting an early drums, mek or euls.
@Peppo I agree a mek or atos or something else would be an easier build up and give you an earlier benefit. Both are solid pickups, everything is situational too.
Other than that, it sure looks like something i will try when i get to play him, +1.
On a technical stand point the guide lacks color and is a wall of text. It is also short when compared to its competitors on the site.
I have looked a long time to make Necro a viable hero and this just might be it.
I agree with Mirror, you should try to get another item before the Heart, usually Mek. However, I don't see Heart as a standard item on Necrolyte. There are other cheaper items that provide sufficient hp and hp regen.
I'm also curious as to why you don't get Aghanim's Scepter or Arcane Boots, care explaining?
I'm pretty sure he doesn't get Aghanim's Scepter because it gives poor benefits compared to the price: the upgrade of the ultimate is considered barely noticeable or useless for getting kills with Reaper's Scythe (you would get the majority of them without it, anyway); if you want stats go for a Drum of Endurance.
Also, Arcane Boots would be a waste of money after you get your second point on Sadist: just get a last hit and watch your mana pool refilling in a bunch of seconds.
I really agree with the first part, though: I'd rather pick up Mekansm and Rod of Atos instead of a full Heart of Tarrasque.
I'm also curious as to why you don't get Aghanim's Scepter or Arcane Boots, care explaining?
FYI, you should change your heros and items to links by putting double square brackets around them [ [ ... ] ] (w/o the spaces and dots)