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Alright, I've seen your point.
My reason being: I've tried those. And why I hate it?
1. It takes luck.
If you get a Troll camp in the first minute of the game, you done goofed. You will take unnecessary damage from ranged creeps, going as far as below half health from just 1 camp, that's even if you abuse the Above Ground Miss.
Of course, one can argue: "just pull and hit them when they get back", but how much time wasted on that just for one camp?
Obviously, if you get Hellbear or Centaur camp or Large Satyr Camp, then you are in luck.
But of course, you need to be lucky, and there lies the problem. I don't deal with luck, I deal with reliable outcomes.
2. That abuse ramps, fog thing mostly works on Radiant. In Dire, neutral creeps go farther to reach you, even almost going full circle despite the cliffs. How much time wasted on just running away from being attacked?
If I read a guide on jungle, I want to make sure it is viable on both sides. If it only works on one side, and the guide maker states it, then it should be fine since I would just use the guide when I'm on that side. But for this guide, my guide here, works on both sides. I make sure they works on both sides, from speed, difficulty, and everything else.
That +6 Armor brings his starting armor to 8, meaning 32% physical damage reduction. When combined with damage block in melee from
And if you don't get
Of course you can get
I should have put that on the guide, my apologies. Any edit in the future should point that out in Abilities Section.
Only on the first 1 to 1.5 minutes this farm is slower. It gets momentum at level 2 with
And the final thing I have to say:
Kill a medium camp, Stack at minute 1
Get bounty at minute 2 after killing medium camp. See your self at level 3 and a Quelling blade plus stout shield.
Its faster, safer, no tricks involved and you dont have to go for a hard camp to pull this off. Moreover, your HP will be in a favorable shape.
<Insert the same .jpg that you posted as response to my rant>
That method works, My guide also works. Speed is roughly the same, I've compared it. Only have different methods. I make the jungle guide as detail as it needs to be. if the method doesn't work, I would have said so. If you have tried this, health is not an issue with Healing Salves and Shrine, since you don't farm below half health most of the time.
The only difference here is my guide is more noob friendly. Stacking is not easy as it seems especially to newer players. The timing to stop attack so they can stack in the next minute is harder than merely bash creeps until X:53 and run away far enough for the camp to stack.
I doubt you even try my guide, see how legit or fast it is, before telling me off. That seriously hurts feelings you know, after spending time to create this guide only to be called a failure by pure theory alone.
FYI, That meme picture is called Roll Safe.
The difference here really is that you underestimate what noobs can do after maybe 900MMR bracket. Stacking is actually the same even when you are in ranged. As you said, hit creeps at 0:53 and run away. This action is done by two mouseclicks and any noob can perform it, given the guidance. I am not saying that your way is not noob friendly, it is sorta even more than that. You have devised something which is idiot-friendly. Something that even a hard coded bot can perform. But we are human beings are we not?
My second insinuation here is that you build works. I never said it doesnt work but this makes you lower on health if not at par. Trust me. Know that i tried you guide and the only dfference in what i do and what you do is only the level 1 skill point. The time a jungle creep is moving back and forth is the time he is not spending hitting you.
I dont know why this hurts for you. Maybe you assumed that i didnt even try your way(mind you it's not your way, it's just an option), hence you brought that hurt on yourself on your own accord. Hardly think this guide is a failure if you could go back and check on what i wrote it might clear things up. I am not a theoretical player and i dont call ******** on pure theory. crafting theory is what makes games real and tangble for other people to play. By your tenor, the jump to 6.88 to 7 would be pure thoery because 7.00 was never tried and tested. Shame if you think like that.
Quoting here: That to me is the single biggest failure of this guide. I do think the guide is fairly well written dont get me wrong. But this sure isnt a nitpick:End quote
Now tell me what you think-Whether my quote here is about the guide being a failure or only the single biggest failure of the guide not recognizing that it can be done two ways.
Closing thoughts, i think people cant take constructive criticism. Its just supposedly applause or you are against me mentality trumping these days. You dont like what i said? you can blame me and i will be fine by it. But know that nothing i said is supposed to hurt your feelings if you are thinking logically. I wont apologise for my comments because they were for the genuine betterment of this guide.
Can you add some timings to the jungling steps please? Sounds interesting and legit, I would just like to know at around what time you're supposed to have your
Great job anyways, have my +1 and put more guides up pliz (why no CM jungle guide...)
Did you know that writing Jungling guide is far less dynamic than a laning guide? This is why I prefer to write these kind of thing.
If you read the guide carefully, I do place those timings, some are in item sections. Can't blame you though, reading a guide can be a chore, especially when you see a core item is seemingly ridiculous to get when compared with the Hero's faming capablity. (Like rushing
I don't really set a true time since the speed you get the items depends on what creeps you get, but prefer on level timing since Jungling at first 10 minutes, Gold goes inline with level.
But basically here is the timing I often get:
By the way, I always make sure the guide is legit as much as possible. Like jungle should not be more than 10 minutes, (Except this guide, Troll has a special rule). After jungle, the hero should be ready to enter clashes etc, etc...
Mostly because the opportunity for that to happen is 1 in 10 games. And Roaming is far better than jungling when playing her since she can get gold from kills. For her to jungle, she has to fill this criterias:
But sometimes it can be viable since a farmed CM with
I'll probably make a guide for her someday.
Thanks! I'll try to find more interesting or unothordox heroes to jungle. Or perhaps common hero jungle, but the playstyle is fitted to current meta. I'll probably try supports one day. Unlike carry, in my book, supports have to go out of jungle after getting level 6, so I have to find heroes that able to fill that rule.
As for CM, I agree with you a hundred percent, was just joking cause CM is bae :) I even have a running joke about those CMs that jungle their Midases forever while being useless the entire early game. I mostly partner up with the boyfriend in lane, so if we see I need to stay to either protect or get kills I stay doing the usual pulling/harassing routine, but if there is a murderous lane indeed where the best to be achieved is sapping some XP he literally says "ditch me" and I happily leave him to eat some neutrals ahah
I'd say better than
Btw I especially like your rule for jungling "not more than 10 minutes/level 6 for supports", as a reference for newer players. I suggest saying this more clearly somewhere, it can never be stated enough.
Cheers!