try this one on for size lads

Is an Opinion, a lie?

1. is an opinion a lie?

2. the difference between an opinion and a belief?

3. if yes? if no? when does an opinion become truth and when does it become a lie?

4. when does an opinion become a belief and where is the line between the two?

5. is a lie just a self held opinion perpetrated by ones own belief in how something should be/was/is that can be changed/impacted upon by internal interpretations of external opinions?


discuss...

1. An opinion, is not a lie. Its a subjective truth.It is a viewpoint.might not apply to somebody else.

2.An opinion is based on ones own thought processes while a belief is the general acceptance of something to be true, especially if there is no proof.

3.An opinion will never become a lie.Why? because there will always be people who believe in it.People believed in hitler.He was wrong wasn't he? that didn't make him a lie did it?

he was proved wrong.And still there are people today who believe in him.

Let us take another example: The anti-vaccine ********.

It's an opinion isn't it? how many studies confirm the "fact" that vaccines cause autism? 1.

How many studies show that the aforementioned study is a load of bull?hundreds probably.

And still there are people who believe in this ********.It is their opinion, its a lie, and still it is the truth for them.

An opinion can never become wrong, unless everybody stops believing in it.

ON the other hand, an opinion may be a fact, but people may not accept it.But it doesn't matter in this case because we have proof which solidifies an opinion's basis.

4. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Analogy_of_the_Divided_Line An opinion, in my opinion (lol), becomes a belief when it is widespread (?).Sorry, i have not quite thought about this.

5.yes.yes it is.

hmm heres where i can see things.

1.you correctly say

"an opinion may be a fact"

now doesnt that make the opinion true?

"opinion can never be wrong"

but what if your opinion is 1+1 = 4.

isnt this wrong? or is it subjective because it isnt an opinion anymore it is infact a belief.

and a belief is in no danger from facts so therefore cant be "wrong"

i believe 1+1 = 4, i cant be wrong.


2. you say people believed in hitler yea its that belief not an opinion ?

hitler had the "opinion" that the Aryan race was superior yet this opinion became belief for those who followed.

but if only one person believed then isnt it still a belief?

3. it is ok to have an opinion about anything yet an opinion is subjective yet is not at the same time.

by having an opinion your already biased towards it. this "bias" could be construed as belief, no? therfore it isnt an opinion?

OR

could said bias make your opinion have greater "truth" to you and you alone? therefore isnt it a Lie to yourself that your opinion is correct, making it in turn a lie ?

1.People believe in wrong things all the time. Sometimes they realize that they were wrong.Sometimes they don't.

Most of the times they have objectives relating to personal gain or fulfillment.

Eg: vaccine ****? these people would rather see their child writhe in pain from various diseases and have a very high probabilty TO DIE, rather than having minscule chance of having a child who is deficient in some areas of life, while excelling in many others.

It's all about the human tendency to do **** for personal gain and be resistant to change, which gives rise to such questions.

2.Alright, i think i confused you.

An opinion is more likely than not, supported by something. Hitler = http://majorityrights.com/weblog/comments/why_hitler_hated_jews/

pretty ******* dumb isn't it? As i said, there is some driving force behind it, it's not as if hitler just woke up some day and told his friends," lets hunt us some jews fellas!" and they all went, "yeehaw!".there was "something".

belief on the other hand, has nothing to support itself with.Like religion...or something.

ok your misunderstanding the conversation.

im talking about the ACTUAL notions

i.e the philosophical notions in relation to/and attached to, belief and opinion.

when does a opinion become an belief is, i feel, more complicated then:

"one has support, the other doesnt"

religion has support, in a roundabout way.

and opinion, metaphysically is attached to self... is that what your getting at?

so an opinion, your pointing out, is not built from external values but based upon how the person themselves feel they can gain from it, whether they are conscious of this feeling or not?

does this mean you think a belief is conscious knowledge of a collective opinion where all participants recognise that by holding this they will receive a type of "gain".

but a opinion is a self held belief where the person only subconsciously acknowledges that they would stand to gain from holding it?

but wouldnt this thought process be more viable if their opinion is a lie since, as previously stated

wouldnt "bias make your opinion have greater "truth" to you and you alone? therefore isnt it a Lie to yourself that your opinion is correct, making it in turn a lie ?"

by joining these two thoughts

bias and subconscious gain, wouldnt it make it more self evident that an opinion is a lie told to ones self that one accept's because they subconsciously know they stand to gain from holding it?

making an opinion even more open to being "wrong" since now you can attach Truth it it?

Then any natural number is 0, because it is made up of the addition of multiple 1's. Actually, all numbers would be 0 by extension lel.


*DOES NOT COMPUTE* DIVIDE BY ZERO ERROR DETECTED MALFUNCTION MALFUNCTION MALFUNCTION SHUTDOWN IMMINENT emergency shutdown complete, initiate recovery from bad mathematics of moderator Wulfstan. Generate message: *Insert name here*, pls learn to maths. Consult Mathstache Xyrus for more information.



EDIT:
404 - WULFSTAN NOT FOUND SELF-DESTRUCT SEQUENCE INITIATED

Dotoforo headlines: Wulfstan suspected of deleting his own post about 1/0.

Wulfy chan are you talking about this?

Thank god the, that you are not in maths.





BUT I STILL LUUUURRRRRVVVV YOU <3333333333


EDIT: YOU DELETED YOUR POST

BUT I STILL LUV YOU. I WILL FOLLOW YOU TO THE ENDS OF THE WORLD .....OHHH WULFY CHUAAAAAAN.

DIVIDE BY ZERO DETECTED ERROR ERROR oh forget it

I know that's a paradox, but it still exists. Also I have no clue of where my post went. I for sure didn't delete it. Unless it was Xiris. And I am aware that it is actually wrong at line 4 and 5.


Who needs math though, when you have Schopenhauer.

Mind if I join? Let me start with my own opinion on the matter:

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1. Is an opinion a lie?
I would like to start answering any question by defining the meaning of the words in question, in this instance "opinion" and "lie". "Lie" is just a word that we use to define 'an intentionally false statement' (according to oxford dictionary), while "opinion" is 'a view or judgment formed about something'. From the definition of lie we can say that something is only a lie when it is intentionally false. However, opinion is a view someone has about something, which means that it is his understanding about something. Therefore, when someone speaks his opinion on something he's telling his understanding, and it is, quoting Kody, a "subjective truth". Now then, it begs the original question, is it a lie? No! According to the provider of said opinion it is the truth! Nonetheless, what about the other side of the coin? What if his opinion is wrong? Does it not justify the receiver of the opinion to judge said opinion to be a lie? Of course it is, it is also then, a "subjective lie" according to the receiver of opposing opinion, because the receiver will believe that it is false, and the provider does indeed intentionally sharing it. What is my point, then? My point is that an opinion, sharing the uncertainty of itself, is simultaneously a truth and a lie.

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2. The difference of opinion and belief?
Like before, I'll start with the definition of "belief", which is 'an acceptance that a statement is true or that something exists.' From the answer of point one, we can understand that the opinion is but a subjective truth and lie. Let's understand that this proposition is improbable if there is no receiver of the opinion, which becomes the main difference of opinion and belief. According to the definition of believe, it is an acceptance, meaning an "individual truth". Does it change from a subjective truth? No, it is still subjective truth, however it does not allow a possibility of the subjective lie. Why so? Because an acceptance means that it is inward, and that there is only one subject, himself. If there is only one subject, does it not make the only subjective truth the only truth? That is basically what differ opinion and belief, opinion is "outward" whereas belief is "inward". Therefore, any belief that is expressed outward becomes an opinion and is prone to subjective lie.

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I think these two points of my opinions has answered to the rest of the points, so I shall leave this here for any incoming questions.