Don't f*ck around. Stomp Pubs with Viper

not impressed with this guide. what was there was old news, and the build is questionable. the few times i tried it, just to be able to comment on this guide, went very poorly.

Viper's Poison Attack is a modifier therefore you are still using your normal attack(just modified) when you use it, therefore Nethertoxin works with your Q. They absolutely do stack together. It would make 0 sense for Viper to basically have to innate UAM's. The Nethertoxin description is just telling you that it doesn't work with your Viper Strike.

If you are clicking off your Poison Attack so you can do Nethertoxin damage you are missing out on a lot of potential damage. The only reason you should turn off Poison Attack is to conserve mana.

"Intensifies Viper's venom, adding an effect to his normal attack that slows attack and movement speed while dealing damage over time. Poison Attack is a Unique Attack Modifier, and does not stack with other Unique Attack Modifiers."

"Nethertoxin causes Viper's normal attack to deal bonus damage to units based on how much health they are missing. The bonus damage doubles for each 20% of health missing from the target. Nethertoxin deals half damage to creeps and buildings."

Both straight from dota2.com

TheSofa and KoDyAbAbA... you are both so very, very, VERY wrong. Nethertoxin is NOT a unique attack modifier like Poison Attack is... you DO NOT have to stop using Poison Attack for Nethertoxin to work. It is painful when people fail to read their skills... every time a skill is a unique attack modifier it states that it is and does not stack with others. Take Eye of Skadi as an example, it states that "Eye of Skadi is a Unique Attack Modifier, and does not stack with other Unique Attack Modifiers." but the in depth text states that "Eye of Skadi can be combined with a lifesteal Unique Attack Modifier" where as Desolator states that "Desolator is a Unique Attack Modifier, and does not stack with other Unique Attack Modifiers." but has no further caveats outlined in additional notes.

I agree with a little of everything being said here. Viper is my most played and most successful hero (something like 70% winrate at 50 games or something) and this guide is more or less how I play him. However, you do need at least one point in Corrosive Skin, as has been pointed out. Even one point can slow down a creepwave for some pseudo-antipush, and it will discourage harass. If you aren't getting harassed then just max Nethertoxin as it will make lasthitting and finishing enemies off a lot easier. If you're up against a Tinker or Sniper who can harass, or anyone like Naga Siren or Dragon Knight who uses their spells to farm and harass simultaneously, you have to have more points. You don't necessarily have to max it, but it's very very beneficial. With maxed Corrosive Skin and a Mek or Crimson Guard, you will be almost impossible to kill at 15 minutes into a match.

Going mid I usually take the greedy path and buy a Wraith Band and some Tangos if I think I'll buy a Ring of Aquila. If I'm planning to buy an Urn of Shadows or something I'll modify it a little, but the Wraith Band gives you quite an edge over your opponent, and Viper is already one of the strongest midlaners out there.

Another thing: this is not a DPS build, just judging from your items. A DPS Viper would not build a Mekansm at any point, and probably wouldn't get a Scepter either. It would be something like Butterfly, Manta Style, Black King Bar, Mjollnir or somthing (I don't even know because nobody plays him like this). The reason he's built tanky is because his damage comes from DoT, meaning if he can just outlast you he'll win the fight.

It isn't a bad guide, I won't give you a downvote for it. But I'm not gonna give an upvote either because there are some things to fix before that can happen, I think. I encourage you to watch some pro games featuring Viper so you can see firsthand how he's being played right now.

I still think having max Corrosive Skin is the best thing you can do when facing the common pub mids ( Sniper, Drow Ranger etc.), so that the more they harass you the more they get harassed. If you want to play in a more aggressive way, you can still go for the 2-1-2-1 build and then max Poison Attack.

Even though Nethertoxin isn't percentage-based, I still see it as a late game skill: in the long run it will grant you bouns damage, but when you are 15 minutes into the game all you care about is people focusing you. As a Viper you will get focused because of your low mobility, and in that case dealing AoE (if we can consider it that way) damage and slowing down those carries usually helps more, especially if we consider that you won't need extra damage when an enemy is getting perma-slowed by your orbs.

By the way, I agree with you about the definition of carry: I usually make two big classifications, farming Heroes and farm-independent Heroes, which include sub-categories (initiator, utility, semi-carry and hard carry for the farming Heroes; semi-support and hard support for the non-farming ones). I could easily classify all Heroes into these sub-categories, but I don't think anybody would care, so...

Oh, and about the "this is a pub guide, not a competitive guide" argument: I've stomped a lot more times by playing a utility Viper instead of the useless Shadow Blade one; a guide that features Mekansm and Aghanim's Scepter is suited for mid(-high) level games in the first place anyway.

Well, if you ignore the skipping of Corrosive Skin for a moment (which really is a matter of preference), I just want to talk about the guide itself.

I'm not sure if the Pros and Cons are supposed to be serious or not, it just seems unrelated.
It's missing a couple of sections that could make it better, for example: "Gameplay," "Role," "Allies and Enemies" etc.

Also, you keep saying to spam your Q, but your Nethertoxin doesn't work with your Q.

I feel this guide is incomplete, I will withhold my vote until it is finished.

Sorry but down voted. The only time I would ever skip Corrosive Skin is if I was solo laning against a melee hero and even than I would put 1 point into it at level 5. You can't deny the importance of the 25% magic resistance and the 25% Atk/MS slow. You say the is a DPS build, which is fine, but the problem is you still focus on his tanky items like Mek and Heart. On top of that I think Crimson Guard is a very viable item if the enemy has heroes like Sniper or Anti-Mage who are high atk speed heroes.

Personally I think Mek has kind of fallen off on him a little bit with the mana increase making mana management at the early stages a bit more difficult and with Crimson Guard being a great tanky item on him and having more EHP.

I guess my whole issue is that you claim this is a DPS pub build but you still used the typical pro item progression that is used to make him tanky. I'm also confused by a few statements. you said a good viper won't be taking a lot of damage yet you stress the early Headdress for healing. Well if you aren't taking damage the healing shouldn't be an issue.

I gotta say even if in my potato tier(3.7k) this build wouldn't fly.

Still it depends on who you against with in pub, if your lane enemy have no disable at all, it is ok to skip Corrosive Skin, punish the common mistakes found in pub, like 5 man carries, Faceless Void and Sniper lane together.

In organised game, skipping Corrosive Skin will be fatal mistake where people can gank you easily.

Sorry but I think no corrosive is just sad .

I'm pretty sure that Nethertoxin does work with denials, but I could be wrong. I just updated the guide for clarity and with user feedback.

As with any build, ultimately it comes down to player preference and choices. You always have to make one action at the expense of another. In my experience this is a very strong build. Your play style might support something else a little better. And that's exactly why we love Dota so much.

I don't think Nethertoxin works with denying...

In the ranked and pro scene he's a tank. Isn't the usually item progression (in the pro scene) Mek >> Agh's >> Heart >> Butterfly?