Puck vs. SF

So it's widely accepted that SF will basically win ( EDIT: *Not Lose ) every single matchup, as long as he is at and equal or greater skill level. He gets a bunch of CS, which gives him damage, and his nukes are massive against another mid.

But what about Puck? He is entirely magic damage based, and burst heavy at that, so he can pretty much keep SF low at all times, even if Sf gets a Bottle. He has a silence to stop close range Razes in fights, as well as being able to dodge the Razes with Phase Shift since the cast animation is pretty obvious. Orb+Rift is spammable enough to keep the creeps back typically. He also has pretty good rune control with Orb and Phase

His BAT and Att. Animation is pretty awful, so he will fall behind in a CS race with SF obviously. Partially fixed if you're good at canceling the animation after you throw the projectile. SF will mostly be forced to go Mek if he wants to stay alive, which will delay the right click advantage he has over you.

Opinions?

Puck destroys SF in lane.

EDIT: I'll add on later

SF doesn't win every match-up, he just almost never loses. A big distinction

Puck is actually okay vs SF if I remember, because you naturally have a lot of base damage, which means you can deny the first few waves; You have nukes enough to threaten a kill, and you are one of the better tower divers in the game.

So you can both stop SF getting early souls (A lane breaker), and kill him. Which are the two best ways to beat an SF.

The issue is, SF is super good outside of lane against Puck.

I have to go soon, lemme get a few words in:

Puck can get every creep in the first 2 levels.
Puck can Phase Shift raze (long animation)
Puck can threaten a kill (especially with supports)

Puck cannot, however, contest SF's stacks.

So puck wins the lane, but doesn't prevent SF from coming back.

Well put. But do you think there could be a counter strategy where Puck and a friendly support like maybe Dazzle could set up some wards in enemy jungle and steal stacks? Because Puck has some pretty good AoE. Coupled with a save like Shallow Grave, Puck can escape very easily if they run into trouble.

Of course this is extremely risky, but maybe if the Dazzle put up some Sentries beforehand to take out the wards on the stacks...

Ye, in an actual game I would definitely pick Puck into SF.

But DotA is a team game... you have to deal with 4 other people tho.

I wouldn't pick Puck into an SF specifically for the lane match-up. If it was a good Puck game, I wouldn't mind having the hero at the end of the draft, but Puck is only a lane counter.

He'll lose kill potential on SF after SF picks up an item or two, since SF naturally builds either tanky or builds BKB early. And the control you bring isn't really control SF cares about; He's a ranged hero with a lot of AOE and doesn't mind just standing his ground so Dream Coil doesn't bother you. He also brings massive amounts of physical and magical damage against a hero who can never really build tanky.

And I don't think SF ever loses the lane hard enough to justify it; I'd rather see like a TA or QoP if you want to win the lane against SF and take it from there.

Eh, if I wanted to pick Puck to beat SF mid... I'd pick Weaver. I've tried it numerous times, he ***** on the demon so hard.

-Can juke razes with Shukuchi
-Threatens kills from level 2
-High base damage means he stops SF's last hitting in the first two waves
-Very hard for SF himself to kill
-Actually good against SF outside of lane