How to buff : Force Staff

If you watched the mlg clumbus 2013, you will know why this is a bad idea. That **** was so overpowered I can't believe that was a thing.

^ Wut? Force never had more than 600 push distance AFAIK. Just checked the balance log.

Cut down the quote a bit to make it fit only.

I agree it's very useful, which is why I still buy it from time to time - it's definitely more of a team utility item than Blink Dagger, but I'd also say it's inferior on a lot of heroes who need initiation (or even for escape).

The big problem I'd say is even for heroes like Dazzle, Lich and Keeper of the Light - who all used to pick it up regularly...there are better options. For Dazzle I'd rather have a Solar Crest any day - who cares if my carry is high ground getting beaten on (and probably facing the wrong way) when I give them +evasion and +armour? Or help get Rosh quicker?

Lich - Veil of Discord almost every time. KOTL, I'll be saving for my awesome Scepter thanks, maybe I'll pick it up near the end. Same with Disruptor and AA.

I'd say realistically this leaves a pretty small pool of heroes who might pick it up - SD, Venge (although Solar Crest again), Zeus maybe, Bambi possibly, Skywrath Mage maybe. Few others perhaps like Magnus, Batrider etc.

It's not a very distinguished list, I can't really think of many heroes where it might be considered "core" anymore. Even Windranger's seem to have abandoned it for Blink.

Again, I'm not saying it's a bad item (and yes, agreed with the posters saying you can use it to pull enemies out of position too) at all, I just think it's got a bit lost in all the new items and the power of the almighty blink. Force is also considerably less effective when the opposition have a lot of super-mobile heroes who don't care much about kiting or having to cross impassable terrain.

So yeah, a little buff perhaps. Make it a Bracer upgrade would be nice, that would raise the cost to about 2450, but it would be a much more natural purchase. I've almost abandoned the Bracer these days in favour of Urn of Shadows, and often skip straight to Point Booster if someone else has picked that up.

People asked for buffs n I gave some ideas that's it. Personally, the value which I gave makes force staff op. I mean, 900 distance force is just bs IMO.
I think blink and force were almost the same when blink had a manacost and thus wasn't built on any and every hero.

Why would you buff one of the best utility items in the game?

The items fine, it's not got the attack speed component anymore which made it build-able on everyone, and is now rightfully bought for the fact that a mobility/repositioning tool that's usable on anyone on your team is amazing value.

Glimmer Cape did outclass it last patch, but Glimmer Cape basically outclassed everything last patch, so it's not saying much.

Sure, the items not core on any given hero, but it's core against a lot of heroes, and it's a very high priority utility item on most utility/supports.

Like, Force Staff is the 18th most bought item this patch in competitive; That's on a list including consumables. To say the item gets under-utilised would kinda be wrong.



Link to DatDOTA in there.

It's not bought on literally every support anymore, because supports have a lot of other utility items to go into; And this is a good thing.

So I would disagree with buffing the item entirely.

I've never heard Force be called "BadGlimmer", I think that you took it from your head as well as Force being underpowered. It's a great support item and it also doesn't have such abysmally expensive parts compared to popular cancer support items.

Force is ok in what it is... It's meant to be a defensive item that can be used on others.

Although I could definitely see how Glimmer and Solar outclasses it, there are sometimes where Force is great as well.

Tide: Blink >> Force >> Refresh
Bat: Blink >> Force >>
Magnus: Blink >> BKB >> Force
Centaur: Blink >> Force
Axe: Blink >> *situational* >> Force
Zeus: Bloodstone >> Force

It's just this patch, none of the good force users are good.

In my opinion Force Staff is good enough. Never feeled underwhelming for me and I buy it a lot (basically every second support game as I am usually position 9)

Force is good on what was made to do: forced movement. +2 regen early on is valuable also.

My opinion, is cheap and efficient.

And most important, the animation of 'riding a roller coaster' when pushing heroes away \o/

I only dunno why people don't make him to intel chars who have channeling spells, like doctor. Death ward and up the hill.

Alright, mistakes were made. Seems so damn far when I watched the game though. Maybe its the force speed that made me thought this.