PLS:Help me some guys still think Scythe of Vyse is not legit on any hero

michimatsch: SCYTHE IS THE BEST ITEM IN THIS GAME AND IS LEGIT ON ANYONE
Mir: glimmer is better on most heroes
Mir: cause it makes half the hero pool useless
Mir: so yeah and bounty can't use the mana

Some parts of a discussion i had with a friend.
As you can see I stated that Scythe of Vyse would be legit on basically any hero.
MAybe that's just me as a support hero but could someone confirm this for me.
Maybe with some good reasons

Dunno, it's like saying Eblade is better than Battlefury on most Heroes. The items have completely different purposes, no sense in comparing them.

No no it is not about comparing them. It is about the statement that Scythe of Vyseis useful on anyone

Its a luxury and only really meant for very farmed intelligence heroes such as Crystal Maiden, Queen of Pain, Invoker, Windranger, Outworld Devourer...

You need real core items first and then this for things like damage, mana pool, and int. for int based spells.

You DO NOT get it on str. and agi. heroes. Its highly situational. Maybe you would put it on a hero like Mirana, Slark, or Elder Titan but only as a "I have 5 slots filled with 4k+ gold items already and a disable would be nice so Im gonna get Vyse..." type item

Scythe of Vyse is only good for control. In some cases it's basically useless and you'd be better off with a different offensive or defensive item.

Your context setting is weird.

Anyway, Scythe of Vyse has situational uses on almost every hero, some heroes carry it much better than others, like Tinker, Queen of Pain, Storm Spirit, and Silencer. The most popular usage is against heroes who rely on escape skills, so you want to be able to initiate on them to kill them before they run away, thus why AM and Storm are a lot less scary once heroes start getting Scythes. The next best usage is that one enemy dpser is clearly more farmed than the rest of his team, and they're susceptible to scythe's disable, as getting a BKB would throw them off, like Slark, Tiny, Phantom Lancer, or even Anti-Mage as mentioned above.

However, there are certain heroes where a Scythe is pretty much never the choice that is favored, and it's not that it's a bad item, but that it's outshined, especially in 6.84, where Hex no longer applies Breaks, making it weaker against many carries.

The first set of heroes are the ones that have what Scythe offers, the built in instant stun, and getting it on them is a bit redundant, especially since they have better item options. The hero examples we have here are Lion, Shadow Shaman, Rubick, and Sand King.
Now, Sand King is the one of those heroes who has the most mana problems and the slowest stun if he didn't blink right onto you, so he is better with scythe than the rest. However, Lion getting a Scythe is redundant, he doesn't need more int, he doesn't need that much mana regen, after he gets positioning items, he needs survival items to make sure he can get off his second set of stuns, so like, Blink, Force, Glimmer, maybe an aghs or octarine if game gets late, but not a scythe. Shadow Shaman can use blink hex to initiate like if he had a scythe, and his priority lies in either his positioning and survival to make sure he can cast more spells, or in his pushing items like Aghs and Refresher to make sure he can take towers, Scythe has no place in his item build, as the refresher he eventually makes will grant him all the mana regen he will ever need. Rubick also has a built in instant stun, and after his blink/force, he prioritizes Aghs, Euls, or other items. Now, he actually has more use for the regen than most, but since he gets to steal a lot of spells from being alive, he probably will not want to pick it up.

The second set of heroes that don't get scythe are the ones that use Abyssal Blade better. Heroes that have build in mobility or naturally get blink daggers, and mana and int are not nearly as much of an issue for them. Heroes like Phantom Assassin, Wraith King, Riki, Night Stalker, Lifestealer, and Ursa (although Ursa may get scythe as well if the situation calls for it since he's slow and stuff).
These heroes all have higher priority for damage and the burst of Abyssal will often do the job right, whether for PA or WK to crit the target down, Lifestealer using Rage and Feast to get the target to low health for allies to finish off, Ursa doing his Ursa things, Riki bursting down the stunned hero with backstabs, or Night Stalker charging to keep heroes locked down. Scythe is simply inferior most of the time on these heroes, and Abyssal goes through BKB, so its more useful for the fight that have started too.

And then third set of heroes that don't pick up Scythe are the ones whose item builds simply don't have room for it because other things are a higher priority. Heroes like Doom, Chaos Knight, and Spectre.
Lucy's item build is stunningly inflexible. He needs to be mobile enough to doom someone (Blink), he needs Aghs to disable passives against carries and make Doom into almost a guaranteed kill, he needs Refresher to hit 2 heroes with it, he needs a powerful armor item to not die (almost always Shivas, sometimes AC). That's 5 slots, and the last one would often be either more tanking, scythe, or Octarine for more dooms, which is almost always the better choice. Chaos Knight puts his priority on many things, mainly his health, attack speed, and damage. If it comes down to Scythe vs Octarine, he will pick Octarine to mend his insane downtime. Spectre is a hero where it makes more sense to make tanking on her rather than try to outdisable the enemy, since she doesn't care if she's disabled very much, only if she's hit by break, so it makes a lot more sense for her to get things like Hearts and Skadis over Scythe.

That was tiring, but I think I'm done.

I think it is situationally legit on every hero in the game without exception. That much I will say; There are a lot of heroes where Abyssal Blade is technically better because of the damage, but in the end a Hex is a Hex, and thus justifiable on anything.

I also have no idea why you wouldn't buy it on Lion or SS eventually; Having two Hex's without needing Refresher is insane, even if it no longer applies break.

Like the stats of the item do not matter compared to the active. It's too late of a pick-up for mana regen to really matter (Unless you are weird and rushing it), and the stats don't mean a lot, save maybe the mana pool since it makes Refresher Orb less of a burden.

It's also not comparable to Glimmer Cape as an item; It's like 2.5x more expensive, and does different things. Arguably more things, but different things.

EDIT; And part of the reason it can be legit on everything is because after a certain point control really means more than damage.

Scythe is legit on any hero as long as the situation requires it.

I would agree with you Sanvitch that it would be situational on everyone if this was 6.83 when Hex disabled passives and before the introduction of the lovely item called Lotus Orb, the only reason I don't find BH that broken this patch.

Hex is just not nearly as powerful as it was before now, and with more late game options for more heroes with the introduction of Moon Shard and Octarine Core, I don't see the Scythe of Vyse as nearly as common a late pickup these days when enemies can just purge it off with Lotus Orbs, even though it is still a powerful item. You can't purge off an Abyssal, and if they're an abyssal carrier and really need a longer stun, they may just go for the Refresher Orb.

I don't expect to change your mind of course. I only see the item as less potent and efficient than before, which is why I don't even buy it on Outworld Devourer by default anymore.

Think Ursa.

Scythe of Vyse is a great pickup that is good on any hero in a situation that requires it.

Meaning that if the situation requires it, it doesn't matter who you get it on, you need it.

However, if you don't need it, then... it doesn't makes sense to get it on Dragon Knight does it?