Community Discussion: Octarine Core Puck

If you read my comment above, you'd realize that Agh's and Nex has already been purchased before the OC.

Also, OC reduces the cooldown of items too, like Blink (which is really good, includes the 3 from being hit), Hex, and Refresher Orb

Yeah, sorry, I only saw your post after I had already posted mine.

I'm not saying OC has no uses, it obviously has some for Puck. But I don't think he profits significantly more from the CD reduction than any other Hero. The impact of the item is just so much bigger on Nightstalker or Leshrac. What does he get?

Blink CD reduction: 12 -> 9 / 3 -> 2.25. It does guarantee that you'll be able to Blink out after Eul's 100% of the time, but it doesn't matter for Phase Shift into Blink (unless you somehow get OC before lvl 14, which I think we can agree is not going to happen)

Orb CD reduction: 12 -> 9. Yeah, you can Blink -> Orb -> Shift -> Jaunt more often, but really, how often does it happen that you initiate instantly after Blink comes off CD again? Obviously increases your escape potential too.

Rift CD reduction: 16 -> 12. Same as for Orb, w/o the escape.

Dagon/Hex/Shiva's/Orchid CD reduction: Nice, but not any better than for any other carrier of those.

Spell lifesteal: Imo kinda useless on Puck.

Obviously way better stats than Refresher.


I kinda think Refresher wins it because of the double Hex alone.

I don't know... Do you pick Puck for the Hex?

Because I don't. If you want double hex, build a Scythe of Vyse on Lion or something.

I just feel that OC suit's puck's playstyle more, although I agree that double Hex is extremely potent and can win fights. It's just for another hero, because as you said, you can build that on anyone.

Refresher Orb is strictly better than Octarine (On a hero like Puck I should clarify), you'd only get Core to work with Refresher Orb. Like, Octarine Core lowers your cooldown, but double Sheep Stick and double ulti wins more team-fights - That's up to 16 seconds where your opponents team can't leave a given area (Which is incredibly important in late game team-fights, because positioning and kiting are extremely important), which gives you so much flexability, and as you acknowledge, double Hex is extremely potent being abother 7 seconds of disable.

And... the trade-off of Octarine Core just falls flat. Your cooldowns in spells are low enough anyway that you aren't likely to get many more out even in late late team-fights, your ulit's cooldown is pretty short, so you aren't like Tidehunter wanting it to increase your uptime. As for surviving; Eul's is enough in that respect, because it's almost impossible to stop an orb out when executed properly.

And you don't pick Puck for a Hex - He just happens to be one of the best natural Scythe of Vyse carriers in the game. And given it's arguably the best item in the game, that's justifiable on almost any hero, and that every team wants a least one of come late game... Yeah, double Hex is just that good that you should not pass it up on a hero who naturally builds into it.

And I've already said, you kinda don't have the item slots for Refrsher and Octarine.

6 Slotted Control Puck:

Boots of Travel, Blink Dagger, Eul's Scepter of Divinity, Scythe of Vyse, Refresher Orb.

6 Slotted Burst Puck:

Boot of Travel, Blink Dagger, Dagon, Scythe of Vyse, Octarine Core, Refresher Orb

Thoughts?

That first build seems to be missing an item, but add an Agh's and it's pretty much what I'd build too (or possibly something like a Halberd if there are no BKB's to counter).

The second build kinda bugs me because Eul's is just so good, but I guess if you're going full burst, it has to be the Dagon. Don't see how the OC fits in, if burst is the goal - Orchid seems the more obvious choice (even though I hate it on Puck), or a Shiva's, both items also give you mana and more burst potential. Or, if you're really trolling, an Eblade. :p

Counter offer, which I just thought of right now after two double scotches: How about your first build, but instead of the Aghs, you add a Silver Edge. Obviously only against appropriate heroes (I'm thinking Bristle, PA).

I think you need Ag's in most games. Like it is extremely rare that valuable cores won't be building BKB's when you are on the opposing side, and well without Ag's you drop off entirely once BKB's appear, because Dream Coil is no longer a form of control.

They are nice idealised item builds, but in reality you are forced into BKB quite a lot, which is an issue with item slots. Plus, you kinda want another utility item at some point like a Shiva's Guard or something, because you are just a good utility carrier. It's just... awkward to try and fit Octarine Core in.

Actually, Puck isn't that great of an aura carrier. He likes to jump in and out... so... not that great.

That's basically it. At least for me, great Puck games are games that don't go long enough for you to even think about OC or Refresher, because while he is not the worst late, you also need to be really, really good to make him work that well as soon as his nukes scale off - and I'm not that good. :p

Well, if we're not idealizing, then what about Force Staff Puck?

I can think if a good reason apart from the usual adfjkhva;kjdnv about force and blink.

If someone is TP'ing after your Dream Coil, you can force them to break the coil, therefore interrupting the TP.