Oracle as a #2-3

Core Oracle without Rod of Atos doesn't work.

Okay.

A few things:

First of all, I agree that this is a theorycrafting thread. Ideas should not be very quickly dismissed, however, if you idea is being taken down by reasoning, you have to accept that.

Second, please think about your contentions and rebuttals before you post them. 1.4 second = carry? Then does Techies' range make him a sniper?

Third, I think people are confusing core and carry.

Core usually denotes farm priority, carry usually means auto-attack damage.

For example: Mid Rubick is played as a core. NOT a carry. Rubick has no damage whatsoever, and is only there for the levels. (and maybe a really quick blink + Agh's).

Anti-Mage, is both a core and a carry, because he is given farm priority AND he has auto-attack damage.



My thoughts exactly. Support Oracle is always going to be better than core Oracle. But, core Oracle can be played to decent success, like carry Io or something. DotA is a complicated game, where anything is possible.

Just not everything is the best.
Hope this helps.

I think Oracle as a core doesn't work really well. I played many games where i play as him and get many kills (not ks) or eventually ends up at mid lane. I pretty much dominate early game and get some kills, but after that, i am useless. The items aren't helping too much and i'm the only one that's fed in the team and the enemy pretty much.

Though, i think core Rubick works much better. There are many games where i'm the only one that can do anything and because of that, enemy are unable to do anything due to the stolen spells. I think his viability as a core depends on the enemy skills though.

But well, i don't play ranked so... you know

edit :

core Rubick 1 2 Oracle 1 2

vs

support Rubick 1 2 Oracle 1 2

But what's the point of giving core position to a hero that lacks damage in the first place?

If we assume no special strategies, there will be 2 core heroes in the team, and if they deal no damage, you will lose because no matter how much utility your core has, it is nothing without damage - even heroes that are cast to mid/safe lane to get fast Mek or Blink pack quite a punch on their own and they scale decently.

Look at the strongest and the most popular mids now - Lina, Leshrac, Zeus - are they picked because of their utility? They don't even have utility beyond items they get, all they can do is deal a ****ton of damage, and that's what they do best, and they take space because they can keep up dealing damage with items they get, and they deal more damage with levels.

Oracle, on the contrary, reaches his peak at level 7, and even then he can't go into enemy lane boasting "Wow, look at my ulti, it's so ******* huge, wanna try? ( ͡° ͜ʖ ͡°)" because the fact that he has level False Promise won't help him much during a gank because it's defensive and it's only offensive side(free BKB) is too situational. However, all of the ganking mids can.

And if you pick him as a farming mid he will only snipe lasthits and sustain himslelf, nothing more until he gets at least Blink Dagger, and then... they just TP out, yeah.

I don't know why would you want to run Oracle as a core unless you are forced to somehow. Very gimmicky and situational.

Actually 6.83 Oracle was really good mid, because his ult was so good. Initiating from invis and staying invis while attacking was so abusable, especially against squishy midlaners.
Now that it doesn't give invis it's a useless skill. It only has use when you're ahead or playing lower mmr bracket.

I see. After reading the comments here, it looks like a #4 Oracle is more useful than a #2/3 Oracle. So, I'm guessing that Eul's Scepter Arcansm boots would be a good early pick-up on this hero. What do you guys think?


EDIT:
Also, what do you guys think of an offlane #3 full-utility Oracle?

Totally viable. It's actually really good because you have a free BKB ( False Promise), a psedo-stun / nuke, A heal and last hitting ability (recently really good, you can now one shot ranged creeps), and a skill that amplifies your right click.

Hahahahahahahahaha you think it's bad now? No way. It gives constant debuff. That means no slowing, stuning, damage over time, etc. Before it was easily countered bc all you had to do was buy Dust. If anything they buffed it.

It is bad now. What does it do? It prevents one hero from getting disabled. In what situation is that useful? When you need to prevent one hero from getting stunlocked. Is it better than BKB? No, dmg still goes through. Is it useful with BKB? Only against physical disables. What physical disables are in existance? Primal roar, Abyssal and bashes. Which of those has multiple instances? Only bashes. Is there any hero who has bashlord potential currently? Only Faceless Void and Troll Warlord. Under what circumstances will their bashlording occur? When they're overfarmed. In what situation are you if you play against overfarmed Void or Troll? A losing position. Will Oracle's ult change anything in that position? Absolutely not, because the dmg will still be too high.

Does prolonging a death have any use? Not really, you can see how bad Wraith King aghs is.

There is a reason noone plays Oracle anymore. It's the changes to his ult. What replaced his ult? Glimmer Cape. Is that a good item? It's one of the best. Where is your dust argument now?

exactly, it stoppes disables, which is pretty damn good. when you use true sight on the other one it the effects was like the current one but without the disables. apart from the CD and 1 sec duration nerf ofc.