Is it past time to nerf Slark?

It's become so routine that I'd almost stopped noticing...but Slark seems to be in just about every game now, not that he was exactly unpopular before. His win rate has gone up 5% since the patch.

So what gives? Basically, he's a really good hero:

- Strong ganking presence from level 1
- Can debuff easily and has high mobility
- Steals stats and weakens opponents
- Complete (!) invisibility for limited time
- Excellent sustain
- Can farm both creeps and heroes quickly
- Scales well into the late game

So he's good early (one of the longest level 1 roots), midgame (strong burst, flash farming and snowballing) and late (incredibly hard to kill, steals stats to weak opponents and gain more damage).

He's one of the most evasive heroes in the game, has good mobility thanks to his ult's passive, and Pounce.

He can farm creeps quickly with Dark Pact, or farms heroes once he gets his Shadowblade (which has incredible synergy with his ult passive).

As for counters...they're pretty limited. Yes, he can be outcarried by harder carries. He doesn't play great from behind. You probably need to lane him safe to ensure a good start. He suffers a bit if he can't heal via something like Ice Blast...erm you need to be reasonably skilled to play him halfway decent. He can be damaged by AOE even when completely invisible. He's a bit vulnerable to really heavy burst.

Ok to balance it a bit, his overall winrate is only about 54%, so hardly earth shattering, but I'd suggest he's not quite as easy to play as some spammers would like - and bad Slarks are forever throwing the game by trying to gank entire teams at once and expecting to get away.

So do you think Slark needs a touch of the nerf hammer? Personally, I'd like to see his early game power toned down a bit if he's going to be so strong throughout.

Something like:

- Pounce Leash time scales 2/2.5/3/3.5
- Dark Pact inflicts damage and purges over a 0.5 second period instead of 1 second. Delay is increased to 2 seconds.

Would probably see how it goes after that. But the ridiculous first blood power being reduced and making Dark Pact a little trickier to use seem reasonable.

I've personally never really struggled with Slark. Maybe it's like me and Cyn, where we pretty much have never run into a good Slark player. But this is a hero that doesn't work in a teamfight meta or a nuke meta. He only really thrives in a ganking/ricing meta, like 6.83, and guess how we beat him then?

I've always beat him with the most direct approach, kill his allies, he can't 1v5, or just overwhelm him in lane, (I can see why it would be tough if you're a solo offlaner though) since in terms of actual fighting, he's actually really weak before level 6. I don't really consider a hero too OP if you can beat him with the most direct approach.

A hero also tends to move into "OP" territory when none of his counters are viable. Remember Troll? Winter Wyvern wasn't in game, Elder Titan, Sand King, and Windranger weren't really viable, so it sucked, like.. a lot, because you had no real counterpicks.
With Slark, there's many playable counterpicks to him: Anti-Mage, Ancient Apparition, Queen of Pain, Kunkka, Faceless Void, Spirit Breaker, and as of this patch Bloodseeker is back.

Yes, it sucks playing against him if your team has no stuns for some reason, it super sucks when you're a support who relies on a stun to save yourself from him, but it's kinda like dealing with CK when you got no counters, you'll just have to accept this and do better next time.

I don't really feel the idea that Slark is really that OP (I'm looking at Timbersaw and Riki with my dagger eyes atm), but in this patch, he's gonna be eating those strength heroes for breakfast, lunch, and dinner, so that means we're gonna be seeing a lot of him picking on Lifestealers and Axes this patch, which is why is winrate skyrocketed, as well as Invoker and OD loss of popularity, since Slark gets owned by mana drain and he likes long fights, which OD was much better at.
So for that reason, I would like him nerfed, not just because Slark players tend to be terrible people, but mainly because I don't like seeing him so often patch to patch, kinda like Pudge and Legion Commander.

So, if I was gonna do it, I'd just cripple his ability to farm so he has to commit more to ganking. Probably halve the damage Dark Pact does to creeps, maybe reduce the duration of essense shift if he's hitting nonheroes, or maybe even buff his laning a little so he can actually go other lanes and be a ganker. We don't need more AGI hard carries, that's why I wasn't too bothered by Arc Warden's new direction (though it is brutal and he will need some buffs).

This is about 6.87 only. He got massive indirect buffs. Before he was fine.




Disruptor all the way. Literally destroys the Fish at any stage of the game. Glimpse can't be purged. Static Storm completely kicks his ***.

Lion, Bane, Beastmaster, Dragon Knight... are also pretty good. Slark can't deal with instant disables. And for Bane, just Nightmare into Fiend's Grip, there's no way he can purge your ult, ever.

Don't be that guy who picks Ancient Apparition against Slark. Not only did you pick a support without a stun against Slark, you're literally free food to him while you're farming your aghs. You just counterpicked yourself -_-

Necrophos is also super good against him. There's no hit-and-run tactics when you get reaper'd every fight. No fun allowed.




Bad Slarks think they're Anti-Mage, buy Midas and AFK farm for 35 minutes XD




Maybe tone down Pounce a bit at low levels of the skill.

But other than that, the only thing that buffed Slark in 6.87 are his items. Silver Edge is absurdly broken. Sange and Yasha is insanely good. That's about it for what makes him better than before.

So essentially he goes silver into SnY and since silver gives +15 to all stats, and he kicks *** with only 2 midgame items. He doesn't need skadi anymore since silver gives him the stats he needs instead. That's a huge buff.

Did I say that silver should get massively nerfed or even downright reworked? Yes. It should. And then Slark is balanced.
I mean +15 to all stats? Really? It's so good right now it's almost core on Medusa. Not even joking.

I think a true "hammer" is undeserved. IT really not hard to counter him provided you have at least 1 r 2 of 4 things:

1.Vision
2.Multiple or Frequent Stuns
3.Severe disables
4.Mobility to match his

Like Cuttles and Ham said, AM, Queen of Pain, Disruptor, Faceless Void, Lion etc. all rape him



Hurts man. I am a Slark player. Altho I do agree he eeds a nerf playin him just seems unfair most of the time with the near infinite amount of escapes he's got.

I think Slark deserves:
Silver Edge damage reduction redcued to 20% and cooldown increased by 10 seconds
Dark Pact cooldown increased to 11/10/9/8
Dark Pact damage deals 25% less to creeps.

Silver Edge being built with Ultimate Orb along with Sange and Yasha buffs are the onyl thing that's changed. Silver Edge broken as **** as usual, and SnY now permaslows. In other words you can get your Eye of Skadi by building items that provide alot more to his kit. As well Echo Sabre works well for burst and fizes mana issue.

Also just to put it out there I rarely see a halfway decent Slark.

Oh Blubbles, you're an okay guy, I said most, and I may or may not have been alluding to BSJ..... But are you willing to admit a disproportionate number of Slarks that talk are unpleasant? Like, compare the Slark vitriol to what you normally receive from a Lich player.

I guess I haven't been experiencing the Slark terror because I've been picking a lot of BS this patch, mainly to counter or dissuade Weaver, Slark, Riki, Timber, and AM pickers.

I'll see if my tone changes, like how I was afraid of the Arc Warden port, but I didn't catch the massive mana nerf to Spark Wraith so he can't autowin lanes.

big one there is in red. doesnt play great from behind. i used to hate playing core slark and not have anything at 20 minutes because i knew it was a lost game. NOW i can have sweet F all at 20 minutes and still win because the changes to silver edge and general meta shifts have allowed him to come back from anything. i had a 4.6k average game where i had 34 cs at 18 mins. on a pos 1 slark (damn you undying lich dua lane) sadface. we still won and honestly its hard to pin down how but i feel the extra agility from silver edge and the new way to play him as a impactful pos 1 allows him to retain essence shifts stacks for longer due to more frequent skirmishes early game into mid game. even when im farming jungle i will have stacks.




thats stillpretty crazy considering the amount of game splayed in :P

Can you all list down the changes that you think made slark overpowered?
Lets be very critical about this. I am more for a windranger treatment.

Does this mean you'll remove the hero?

there isnt anyone thing. i think it was a combination between the silver edge chnage the inrtoduction of echo sabre and a meta shift in rotations and meta heroes that allowed him to become powerful.

Disruptor is a good shout, I should pick him up more against him - although you probably need some HP or a Ghost Scepter to avoid being taken down by his burst (with just a Shadow Blade he has about 700+ combined damage). Course, if he's smart, he might start hitting Shadow Dance and then I can't target him with Glimpse.

Personally I find even supports with good stuns hard to play against him - you either try to throw it instantly and hope to catch him out (easier if you're initiating), or you're left having to wait 2.5-3 seconds before you can risk throwing anything that isn't going to be purged in short order.

If you don't burst him down or fully chain your stuns perfectly, he can just Shadow Dance away, gain his HP back in short order, and even come back in if he wants to.

Pick squishies against him - he loves it, easy to kill
Pick tanks against him - he loves it, more stats to steal

Personally, I think he was getting pick a lot already in 6.86, 6.87 has boosted him further with the other changes. Ok he'll still lose to a fast-farmed AM...but who doesn't really? And AM is unlikely to cause you much trouble for the first 20-25 mins...he's much easier to harass and deny. He doesn't get unlimited health regen at level 6, he can't just shake off your stuns or silences until he gets at least a Manta Style, he can't go so invisible that there is no way at all of directly targeting him.

This might seem OTT, I agree he does have weaknesses like his ****py stat growth, but I'm seeing what feels like 80-90% pick rates for him.